Will there be a Millennial Kingdom?

Is the teaching that there is no 1000 year Kingdom heresy? If so, fully 1/2 of Christian denominations today believe there will not be a 1000 year kingdom including Orthodox and Roman Catholics, Methodists and Lutherans. Even some Messianic congregations express this belief. So will there be a Millennial Kingdom or not?

Four Views on the Millennium

Let’s begin this new series of articles by looking at the four main views of the Millennium:

(Graphic By Lamorak – CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=5744605/)

This graphic displays the four main eschatological views in the Church. Three of the views include a 1000 year Millennial Kingdom where Jesus reigns upon the earth. Amillennialism denies this Kingdom will take literally take place.

Post-Tribulational Pre-Millennialism

This view assumes the Church will be persecuted by the Antichrist during the Great Tribulation. After that tribulation, those holding this theory believe Jesus will return to resurrect and rapture believers.  After the Rapture, those holding this theory believe Jesus and believers will return to the earth to rule and reign for a thousand years. At the conclusion of the 1000 year Kingdom, Jesus will conduct a final judgment and enter the eternal state with those who have placed their faith in him. Both the Pre-Wrath (the view I believe to be correct) and Post-Trib. Rapture camps hold this view. This is the historical view of the Church and dates back to the teaching of the Apostles and early Church Fathers.

Pre-Tribulational Pre-Millennialism

The view is identical to the previous view except that it assumes a Rapture of the Church prior to the 70th Week of Daniel, and that it will not be subject to the persecution of Antichrist. The Pre-Trib. Rapture camp believes this view. The Pre-Trib. view was developed in the 19th Century and has become the most popular view among Evangelicals.


This view holds that the Church will enter a “golden age” of 1000 years as more and more people come to Christ until eventually nearly the entire world becomes believers. At this point Jesus would return to resurrect the dead, hold the last judgment, and then begin the eternal state. This view does not believe in the 70th Week of Daniel nor in the Rapture. This view was quite predominant in the progressive, social gospel movements of the 18th and 19th Century.


This view holds that the 1000 year reign of Christ is symbolic of the time between his first coming and second coming; and that it is not a literal 1000 years, but that it is symbolic of his Spiritual reign. Like Post-Millennialists, most Amillennialists do not believe in he 70th Week of Daniel nor in the Rapture.  They do believe that Jesus will return someday to resurrect the dead, hold the last judgment, and usher in the eternal state. Historically, Amillennialism rests on the teaching of Origen who took a “spiritualized” approach to prophecy rather than a “physical” view; that prophecies would be spiritually realized and should not be taken literally.  Although almost all Christian Denominations denounce Origen as a heretic; still many embrace his eschatology of Amillennialism.

If Amillennialism is correct, nearly everything written on this site and in my three books is wrong. There will be no Rapture, no 70th Week of Daniel, no prophecies needed to be fulfilled prior to Jesus’s return, etc. This makes this discussion an important one. If Amillennialism is true, I need to shut down this site as do many other prophecy sites. We will spend a couple weeks examining it.

History of the Millennial Views

The Early Church was unashamedly Pre-Millennialist. Writing in the Second Century,  Justin Martyr had this to say in his Dialogue with Trypho:

But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.” Justin Martyr

And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem” Justin Martyr

Iraneus was another early Church Father who taught that the Church will face Antichrist during the Great Tribulation and after that Christ will return and usher in his Millennial Kingdom:

But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

The Seventh Day

Iraneus mentioned the Seventh Day, but the Church has forgotten this critical teaching, which in and of itself proves the Millennial Kingdom. It is very well explained by the Epistle of Barnabus  cited by Clemens, Alexandrinus, Eusebius, Jerome, and many ancient Fathers (even Origen.)

(3) And in the beginning of the creation he makes mention of the sabbath. And God made in six days the works of his hands; and he finished them on the seventh day, and rested the seventh say, and sanctified it.

(4) Consider, my children, what that signifies, he finished them in six days. The meaning of it is this; that in six thousand years the Lord God will bring all things to an end.

(5) For with him one day is as a thousand years; as himself testifieth, saying, Behold this day shall be as a thousand years. Therefore children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, that all things shall be accomplished.

(6) And what is that he saith, And he rested the seventh day: he meaneth this; that when his Son shall come, and abolish the season of the Wicked One, and judge the ungodly; and shall change the sun and the moon and the stars; and he shall gloriously rest in that seventh day (a thousand years). (Barnabus 13:3-6)

This wonderfully explains the understanding of the Great Creation Prophecy explained by Peter and the Writer of Hebrews which has been forgotten by the Church. (Please see THIS ARTICLE for a deeper understanding of the Great Creation Prophecy.)

The Writer of Hebrews’ Seventh Day

The writer of Hebrews clearly explains this teaching within the canon of scripture:

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus (or Joshua) had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another dayThere remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Heb. 4:3-11)

It is incredibly important to understand this passage which clearly speaks of the Millennial Kingdom, a Seventh Day. Notice the Writer of Hebrews says that  Joshua (it is most likely Joshua, his name and Jesus’s are identical in the Greek) did NOT provide us rest upon entering the promised land and that is why a Seventh Day, a seventh 1000 years, is still coming.

Of even greater interest is what follows this statement. It is obvious that the seventh day (the 1000 years) and the rest of God was still remaining when Hebrews was written! We are told we must labor to enter the 1000 year rest. Our discussion of Amillennialism should end right here, but there is more, much more.

Peter’s Seventh Day

Peter speaks of this same 1000 years and calls those who claim there won’t be a PAROUSIA or Rapture are morckers or scoffers:

Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming (PAROUSIA or rapture)? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water (the Creation) through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.  The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.  But the day of the Lord will come like a thief (2 Pet. 3:3-10)

Peter demonstrates that all the ages of the creation prophecy “days” are 1000 years long.  Peter is clear that the mockers don’t know the date of Jesus’s return because they don’t understand the creation account (in which the seventh day is mentioned) and its prophetic meaning. If they did, they would know that Jesus returns 6000 years after creation; and that a 1000 year day of rest remains after that.

John’s Seventh Day

John of course, re-enforces this teaching in the Book of Revelation:

 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. (Rev. 20:4-6)

John’s testimony is the same as the writer of Hebrews, Peter, and the early Church Fathers. There is a thousand year reign of Jesus in which the resurrected will reign with him.


So the teaching of the “Seventh Day” is fundamental to our understanding of the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus. The concepts of seven millennia as prophesied by Genesis has been ignored and forgotten by much of the Church, but as we can see, it was an integral understanding of the Apostles and the early Church Fathers and framed their understanding of eschatology.

In the next article in this series, we will study whether this 1000 years is a literal thousand years or a figurative length of time.


70 thoughts on “Will there be a Millennial Kingdom?”

  1. What about these passages (KJV):

    1 Cor 3:13-15
    Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
    If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
    If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    Malachi 3:2-3
    But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:
    And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

    To me it is about the Day of the Lord- God Himelf, but after the Millenial Reign…. About estabilishing new earth by fire…

  2. Nelson,
    In the article you wrote regarding premillenialism, “This is the historical view of the Church and dates back to the teaching of the Apostles and early Church Fathers.”

    After doing some research I found that Premillenialism was condemned as a heresy by the Second Ecumenical Council in 381 a.d..
    At this point in time the idea of a literal thousand year reign was referred to chiliasm. The main person who was teaching this view was Apollinarius. The council condemned him as a heretic and added the words ,” and of his kingdom there will be no end” to the Apostles Creed to refute the teaching of premillenialism.

    How do respond to this?

    1. This is interesting info Christopher. At some point, I need to research it. But that is why other readers have referred to Historical or Apostolic Premillennialism. The teaching of the original disciples as shown by the first article. Much error entered church doctrine over the years. Our job is to properly interpret scripture not man’s doctrine. That is also why this multi-part series has begun; to help us do just that.

      1. Nelson,
        You should do some research on the so called historic/apostolic premillenialism view because it does not fit with the view of the early church fathers or apostles.

        Charles Ryrie of Dallas Theological Seminary fame has written, “Premillennialism is the historic faith of the Church.” But in response, Alan Patrick Boyd, a student at Dallas, concluded the following in his Master’s Thesis, “It is the conclusion of this thesis that Dr. Ryrie’s statement is historically invalid within the chronological framework of this thesis [apostolic age through Justin Martyr].” (quoted by Bahnsen and Gentry, p. 235) Some premillennialists had attempted to show that premillennialism was the “pervasive view of the earliest orthodox fathers.” (House and Ice, Dominion Theology, p.202) But many scholars have shown this to be false, including Boyd, D.H. Kromminga, Ned Stonehouse, W.G.T. Shedd, Louis Berkhof, and Philip Schaff. According to Boyd, the best that can be said of the early Church father is that they were “seminal amillennialists.” (cf. Bahnsen and Gentry, “House Divided” p. 239) The early Church fathers, e.g., Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Papius, admitted that there were many other Christians who were quite orthodox and not premillennial.”


        1. Again, this is interesting but totally immaterial. Proofs from the Word of God are what matter, not man’s opinion. Concentrate on that, and that only. This article examines numerous scriptural references and quotes. I’d start there in my analysis if I were you. The Pre-Wrath Rapture was the opinion of Jesus and the apostles, yet, that opinion was lost to history until Van Kampen in the 1980’s. You as a Pre-Wrath believer should understand that church history is filled with erroneous doctrines not based on scripture.

  3. Christopher,

    If this is the physical millennial kingdom that God had promised those who wait in faith for him…then this earthly life I’m living totally sucks! If this is what I’v been promised then I’ve been ripped off royally. I’m a fool for believing God for anything.

    But this current earthly life within this fallen evil age is not the physical millennial kingdom God promised to those who love Him and remain faithful. What I live in now will come to an abrupt end and I cannot wait!

    God will provide so much more when His Son, Jesus, physically sits on his earthly throne to rule and reign over the earth…and as I continue to remain faithful I will be a citizen of THAT kingdom and co-reign with King Jesus.

    That is the God I know as I look forward in faith and daily obedience.


    1. The biggest lie the devil tells us is that we should have happiness. When evil and and exist side by side it will be hard to find true happiness that isn’t an illusion. People put themselves in tremendous debt to find happiness in a nice house, new car, trophy wife, best clothes, etc.
      Jesus said the opposite: “I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

      Did the apostles have it easy? How about our brothers in the middle East?

      Paul said, “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.” Romans 8:18

      Christ reigns above and sits at the right hand of the father. That was the glory he forsaw and he endured the sufferings of the cross to attain it. Jesus said, “I go to prepare a place for you and if I go I will come again to you so that where I am, there you may be also.”

      The moment you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you made peace with God and are a citizen of the Jerusalem above, not below. You are a member of his kingdom! How did you enter the kingdom?

      John 3:5- Jesus answered, truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

      What is the great commission? Go forth baptizing for the remission of sins and preach the gospel to all nations. (Mark 16:15)
      What is the gospel? Gospel means good news. The good news was that the kingdom had come! And God’s only son was the reason why we can enter the kingdom.

      Who was given the keys to the kingdom?

      1. The biggest lie the devil tells us is that we should have happiness.

        You should really have a think about that comment Christopher, didn’t Jesus say: I have come that they might have abundant life? John 10v10.

        And what about : Spalm 16v11 to quote but one, that says in the presence of the Lord there is fullness of Joy? You simply cannot be unhappy if you have joy.

        Christians in Iran are through God’s grace indeed happy. Yes they are in perilous circumstances, but they are in the presence of God.

        Happiness is no lie of Satan when it comes to God’s people, the disciples rejoiced in prison while in chains!.

  4. Roland, I visited the sight, read many articles– In particular First Fruits. I disagree with the conclusion by Watchman Nee that there will be two raptures: one group before the Tribulation and one group after the Tribulation. I found no examination at the sight of the prewrath rapture perspective.

    1. I believe this is a tribute site for Peter’s work. As he live in the late 19th C when Prewrath perspective was not know, no discussion is included. I do not agree with all his work posted but I’m impressed by the church history of Pre-Millenianism and its enemies. I only posted it so people could more easily access Peters main work ‘The Theocratic Kingdom of Our Lord Jesus, the Christ, as Covenanted in the Old Testament and Presented in the New Testament’ in 3 vols (1884)

      1. I think you may be correct about this. We must not throw out what is good just because something erroneous is on the site. I suggest our readers discern for themselves as in all other matters.

  5. I see history repeating itself. The Jews in Jesus’ day were looking for an earthly kingdom with the Messiah ruling from Jerusalem. I think Judas was under the impression that by betraying Jesus he would help jump start the beginning of the revolution to overthrow the Roman empire and usher in the kingdom of David.

    Would anyone know that Elijah had come unless Jesus revealed it? Poor John the Baptist wasn’t sure Jesus was the Messiah until he was in prison, even after baptising Jesus.

    Those who are looking with earthly eyes to see an earthly kingdom will not see it. The kingdom of God has already come and Jesus reigns up on high from Jerusalem.
    Luke 17:21- “You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you.”

    Sadly, those so eager for an earthly kingdom will be given one, but it will be the Antichrist kingdom posing as the long awaited 1,000 year reign of the Messiah. Matthew 24:24-For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

    The kingdom of God has already come, will you be like the Jews of Jesus’ time and completely miss the promises fulfilled? Mark 9:1-” And he said unto them, Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they the kingdom of God arrive with power.”

    Woe to those who look for God with earthly eyes. The devil knows how to use your carnal desires against you. John 3:3- “Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

    1. There will be a series of articles, each with a different theme. Hopefully, we can discuss these topics from the scriptures as each is presented. Simply shooting out a soundbite verse like Luke 17:21 out of context (the context extends all the way to the Illustration of the Vultures and the Body) accomplishes little. Then, after thoroughly examining the scriptures, the readers can decide.

      I would hope no one reading this site is looking for an earthly kingdom prior to Jesus’s return on the clouds. You are correct that many will be duped by the earthly false messiahs, that is why Jesus gave us the second version of the Illustration of the Vultures and the Body, Matt. 24:27-28. So that we know his return will be unmistakable, his glory shining like lightening. That is what all Christians should be watching for.

      Finally, many of us (myself included), already think the Kingdom has come within the hearts of believers everywhere. Why keep bringing up that point? You’re singing to the choir. The Kingdom can be here spiritually now and physically later. It isn’t mutually exclusive.

      1. Nelson,
        You said, “Many of us think think the kingdom has already come within the hearts of believers everywhere, why keep bringing up that point?”

        You are missing the point. The kingdom has come physically and spiritually!
        Mark 9:1-
        Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power.”

        The kingdom of God arrived on the day of Pentecost. Acts 2:1-4: “When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”

        What is more powerful than this event when 3,000 people became Christians and entered the kingdom of God.

        This fulfilled Joel 2:28,29 where God promised to pour out his spirit on all mankind.

        Prior to the day of Pentecost John the Baptist and Jesus we’re preaching, “Repent, the kingdom of God is at hand!”
        In Mark 1:15- Jesus tells them,
        “The time is fulfilled, he said, and the kingdom of God is near. Repent of your sins and believe the good news.”

        What was the good news? The kingdom was coming and it was almost there!

        Notice also how Jesus said the time was fulfilled? Where in the old testament was the kingdom promised to come at this exact point in time?

        I will leave that for the next comment.

        The kingdom came spiritually and physically, when Jesus comes back it is to judge the quick and the dead. He already reigns in his kingdom.

        1. To me this is a matter of semantics-of course the Kingdom of God has come, however, until we work all the way through this material and we have a chance to discuss this in depth, I will respect your position.

  6. Just pointing out at over 2000 pages in 3 volumes it is not a ‘light read’ but one that is full of church history and theology. The books are divided into 206 propositions, each stating a point of importance with regard to the Kingdom of God, and then giving proof for that proposition, often using the texts of those writers that disagreed with him! Peter’s quotes over 5000 sources, so his research is exhaustive. Each proposition is built on the previous one.

  7. George N. H. Peters (November 30, 1825 – October 7, 1909) was an American Lutheran minister and author of The Theocratic Kingdom. His premillennial views were in conflict with the majority of Lutherans who held postmillennial beliefs.
    In 1884, Peters’ major work, The Theocratic Kingdom—a three-volume defense of non-dispensational premillennial theology—was published for the first time, by Funk and Wagnalls; it was reprinted in 1952 and 1972. In the preface of the 1952 edition, Wilbur E. Smith calls it “the most exhaustive, thoroughly annotated and logically arranged study of Biblical prophecy that appeared in our country during the nineteenth century.

  8. I like that, Roland. Who is G N H Peters ? I didn’t find him on a quick search.

    The Millennial Kingdom of 1000 years is as clear to me as the sun rising tomorrow. Praise the Lord for intending to make this Earth full of the knowledge of the glory of YHVH as the waters cover the seas!

  9. Great discussion and teaching…Given the comments about dispensationalism and historic premillennialism, I thought this link might be helpful.


    I would classify Nelson and Joel as historic premillennialists, as I am….. yet while there may be similarities with dispensationalism, they are in reality two separate systems. For instance, one major important distinction is that historical premillennialism does not hold to 2 separate redemptive plans, one for the Church, and one for Israel.a separate redemptive plan for Israel as compared to the Church. Salvation is always faith through grace throughout the entire Bible…..Israel is not saved through a separate plan.

    It is significant in my view that the majority of the early church leaders held to a historic premillennialist viewpoint, which was not “pre-trib”…..dispensationalism came later, and injected pre-trib thinking

    1. Good comment Sam. That helped me to understand the premillenial view that most on this site hold; historic premillenialism.
      Nelson, take note of Sam’s approach. Simple and able to distinguish differing views within premillenialism. The seventh day thoery in the article really sounded like the “D” word to me.

  10. G N H Peters long ago wrote “The taking possession of His own inheritance, as David’s Son involves His personal Coming……….. To separate the Inheritor from His inheritance is opposed to the entire spirit of expressed Covenant and Prophecy.
    ………Yet, alas multitudes take such a position, and have an inheritance without the personal presence of the Inheritor, a marriage with the bridegroom absent, a kingdom without a visible king, a millenium without the restorers presence & work, all to avoid the conversion & restoration of the Jewish nation as inseparably united with the personal advent of the Messiah.”

  11. Nelson,
    Conversation with you is very difficult. You make very pretentious and sarcastic comments that are very rude to someone trying to engage in an highly spiritual conversation. I notice you write articles that attack your readers/commenters viewpoints and assert yours as mainly valid. It is not fitting for one as yourself who is trying to teach and edify believers in Christ.

    If you want a bunch of people to agree with you, which mostly everyone on this site does, then you have a fan club, not a forum for discussion.

    I close with Romans 12:10-Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Outdo yourselves in honoring one another.

    1. I am sorry you felt attacked Christopher, but I felt I needed to get your attention. This conversation is not about dispensationalism; and my frustration with your comments is that every one of them has included this label. We’re not talking about labels, we should be talking about the Word of God. Dispensationalism is not a biblical concept; it is a man-made concept. If you discuss the Word and not try to apply labels on myself or others, it will go much smoother.

      None of us has a perfect grasp of God’s plan, but that plan is revealed in the Word. The more we conform to it the better our grasp of God’s revealed intent.

      1. Nelson,
        You are lecturing me about not using labels but you labeled those with amillenial views as heretics. Practice what you peach brother.

        1. Please notice the first article simply asks the question “Is Amillennialism heresy?” The article only refers to one individual as a heretic, Origen, and this is a universal position in the Church. Considering Amillennialism a heresy is a common position among evangelicals. The question at the beginning of the article points out that if it is, fully 1/2 of the church would be heretical. There is a difference between error and heresy. All of us are in error in some ways regarding end times. This is a quesiton I plan to explore and answer at the end of the series.

  12. Well I guess I am going to have to defend my position as an Amillenialist. First, I do not agree with Nelson’s thesis describing a traditional view of amillenialism. This view is very concerning to him so I think bias is being shown by claiming it is a heresy to hold this view.

    Having a viewpoint that Christ’s kingdom has come already here on the earth and that it is an invisible one that cannot be removed is not heretical in my opinion.

    I will attempt to defend my view and contrast it with premillennial dispensationalism, which is the view held by Joel and Nelson.

    I encourage everyone to familiar themselves with dispensationalism. It basically says there are Seven dispensations (seperate time periods) and the last time period will end with a literal 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ over the earth. This ties in with Nelson’s seventh day teaching in the article. The original progenitor of dispensationalism was C.I Scofield.

    I will be brief and end this comment and begin the next explaining amillenialism as best I can.

    1. “Having a viewpoint that Christ’s kingdom has come already here on the earth and that it is an invisible one that cannot be removed is not heretical in my opinion.” – Christopher

      You are right Christopher. I agree that the Kingdom has already begun in the hearts of believers all over the planet. This seems to be the clear teaching of scripture, but doesn’t negate a Millennial Kingdom one bit.

      And NO, the seven dispensational periods don’t at all fit in with the biblical teaching of seven 1000 year periods. As I said previously, I’m not a dispensationalist. Rather the Great Creation Prophecy is based on the teachings of the apostles and the early church.

      1. Nelson,
        Where can I find more information on the ‘Great Creation Prophecy?’
        From what I am seeing it is closely similar to dispensationalism and since dispensationalism has been highly critiqued, some people have attempted to repackage it under the guise it is a lost understanding of early Christians.

        1. Oh vey! Apostolic premillennialism?
          Apostolic premillennialism differs little from dispensational premillennialism and incorporates many of the core interpretative and chronological scenarios popularized by Hal Lindsey. The only main difference is a belief in Pre-wrath rapture vs Pre-trib rapture. These include, for example, a literalist hermeneuticof the Book of Revelation, separate redemptive plans for Israel and the church, a personal Antichrist leading a revived Islamic empire and Israel as a nation restored, a rebuilt Jerusalem temple and reinstituted sacrificial system, a seven-year Great Tribulation, and the earthly millennial reign of Jesus following His second coming.

          So many Christian beliefs trying to differentiate themselves reminds me of the Protestant Reformation which has given way to hundreds of denominations.

          1. Christopher, all premillennial beliefs will look more alike than amillennial beliefs. This doesn’t make them the same, just as all those Protestant denominations may be similar in some ways and different in other beliefs. Again, this is the last comment on this thread that will incorporate the word “dispensationalism” because I will edit these out from this point on. Let’s not “name-call” or label each other, but discuss the substantive issues from scripture that we are discussing here.

    2. I would also add that John Nelson Darby shares in the view of dispensationalism. He was the teacher of the pretribulation rapture that many of of us have come to realize is false. We know that pre-wrath rapture is what scripture teaches.

        1. Nelson,
          I found this article that explains your viewpoint.


          In the article it says, “This view was also popular among 19th- and 20th-century dispensational premillennialists.”

          I hope this helps you to understand that you and Joel are premillennial dispensationalist. You are broadly in this theological teaching but you adhere to what you term ‘Great Creation Prophecy.’

          There is a saying that goes, ‘If you want to have a conversation, you must first define your terms.’

          I think you have completely misunderstood and misrepresented my position but I did not want to misunderstand yours.

          1. This article does briefly explain the theory, although notice God is referred to as the “Judeo-Christian God” rather than just God. Doesn’t sound like an unbiased article to me. But it does explain the theory to some extent. I prefer my explanations in this article and the attached article.

            Thanks for telling me what I believe and what I don’t. I need someone to do that for me. I’m sure Joel Richardson appreciates it as well. We are both weak minded individuals and a strong minded person like yourself is just what we needed to steer our beliefs. In all seriousness, I respected your comment that I didn’t understand your flavor of Amillennialism. I still don’t completely understand it, but I am willing to believe it isn’t the same as traditional Amillennialism. Please respect me when I say I AM NOT A DISPENSATIONALIST and please don’t lump Joel and myself in that category. I don’t like labels.

            But if you want to put a label on me try this one: bond-servant of the Most High God. That is the only one I’ll accept. If you notice, I quote the bible not WIKI articles by non-Christians. If you want to have a conversation with me, quote scripture. That’s what I respect and understand.

  13. It is my opinion that Amil is indeed heresy. It seeks to make God a liar in that the land promise portion of the covenant with Abraham will never be fulfilled. As well as most of the OT for that matter, even though Jesus said plainly that every jot and tittle would be fulfilled. They will be ashamed when the day comes. Personally, I see a strong correlation between Amil and Replacement Theology. Both are based on envy and pride.

    On a positive note, I appreciate your including the creation week concept that was widely understood in the past, but nearly forgotten today. That is exactly how it will play out. Each day is 1000 years. The seventh day, the Sabbath day, is the Millennial reign of Christ. In fact, Jesus said so here…

    Mark 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

    Traditionally this verse has been interpreted as Jesus having the authority to do what He wants, even on the Sabbath. Basically, Jesus being a smart aleck. I don’t think that is the right interpretation. I think Jesus is telling us directly that He is the one who will rule on the Sabbath day, the 7th thousand years. By extension, Jesus is also confirming this will begin when the 6000 years is over! We were not made for the Millennium. The Millennium was made for us!

        1. Very interesting article Harvos. The one aspect of this he misses is that not only is there a sabbatical plan for Millennia, there is a sabbatical plan for the 70th Week of Daniel. He rightly notices from Isaiah that the Wrath of God is a year, however he misses the conclusion of this that the Rapture is after six years of the 70th Week with a Sabbath rest in heaven for the saints in the seventh years!

          He gets into the weeds trying to figure out the chronology of the bible! Deep mud there and I think he realizes that is a nearly impossible task. One problem of his is that he places Christ’s birth after the year 4000 AM (4000th year from creation.) Based on the Genesis prophecy Jesus had to come in the 4th day.

          Based on that we know Jesus’s ministry was 33 1/2 years at maximum. Just one more proof that the 6000 years must end in the 2020’s or 2030’s.

          1. Ah, Nelson…this response above about the 6000 years of this fallen age will end in the 2020’s or 2030’s is well known in prophecy circles! Mark Davidson has the estimated Tribulation period occurring in 2036 to perhaps 2043 for the possible physical return of Jesus’s Second Coming. But this is dependent upon all of his other signpost events occurring as he theorizes. We shall see. It is not out of the realm of possibility, but then that would make me a very old woman if I lived long enough which I’m not sure I could do. But with God, all things are possible. 🙂


          2. Date setting is a dangerous game. If we guess too early, we are considered a false prophet when that day comes and goes. If we guess to late, the church is illl prepared for the 70th Week.

            I have a personal range, but it is only my educated guess. I believe in watching not date setting. I could easily be wrong. However, it is not based on theories of man, but the Word. Hosea 5:14-6:4 is an amazing passage. In the Greek Septuagint it says Jesus, the Lion of Judah, is harpazoed (the ascension) himself and returns to “his place” (heaven). He harpazo’s his people and heals them in 2 days and we live before him on the third day. So to me this says 2000 years from his ascension to the harpazo or gathering together of saints. This is a narrow band of possible years 2028-2033 for the harpazo. I think I will do an article on this passage and a word-by-word analysis. Look for it in a month or so.

          3. I don’t think he was date-setting as a given, Mark knows that, but just to give as a possible frame of reference. I never took it as absolute truth, I would never depend upon it and become disillusioned that it didn’t happen that way. Sorry if I didn’t communicate that clearly.


          4. I didn’t mean to imply that he was. He was attempting to set a range of possible dates based on his theories. Not much different than my range setting. Knowing Mark, he has communicated his lack of assuredness about his range as I did about mine. It’s guesswork on everyone’s part.

          1. I agree with your interpretation here. I would only add one thing. There have already been 2000 years since Christ’s ascension. How? Don’t forget to add the Jubilee years There have been 20 of them since the time of Jesus. Today, we are already past the second day. The time is shorter than most realize. All these things will come to light after the Tishri 1, 2020 restoration of Jerusalem.

          2. The Book of Jubilees which existed since the second century BC shows clearly that Jubilee cycles were 49 years not 50. Jubilees were the first year of the next cycle. Now although this is a non canonical book, it is not possible that it would be so honored at the time of Jesus unless it accurately depicted how Jubilees were accounted for. My take anyway.

            Jesus died at the absolute earliest in 26AD and at the latest in 36AD. It is later than most think.

          3. You are correct about the book of Jubilees. The 50th year was not there. However, it wasn’t instituted until after they crossed into the promised land. So, that explains why there was no 50th year in Jubilees which ends before entering the land. This is a major part of figuring out God’s calendar. The first 50 Jubilees exactly did not have 50th years. The following 70 Jubilees do have 50th years. Thus 120 Jubilees end exactly 50 years prior to the 6000th year from creation. “The time of the end.” I’ll leave it there for now.

          4. The problem with that approach Harvos, is that the Jubilee would interrupt the continuous cycle of sabbatical years. God clearly said each seventh year was to be a Sabbath for the land. Placing the Jubilee in the first year of the next cycle (the fiftieth year) allows for the Jubilee and for the continuous cycle of Sabbatical years.

            Also, haven’t you contradicted yourself above? First you said there would only be 70 Jubilees and then claim 120. Which is it? Interesting the the Book of Jubilees was listed as being about Jubilees, but you claim these started after the entry into the land. Thus, by this reckoning, Jubilees started after the Book about them! The Book of Jubilees is organized into 49 year segments because these are Jubilee cycles and neither the sabbatical cycles of seven years, the seven sevens of years, nor the Jubilee were shown to Israel prior to Leviticus. But according to the Book of Jubilees (non-canonical), these cycles existed from the beginning. To me, why would only the Jubilee be added, when all of God’s organization of time was a mystery until it was revealed in Leviticus?

      1. Unconditional. Period. See all three covenants with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The wicked will be cast out, but the righteous will inherit all the land promised them. Or, God isn’t good for His word.

          1. Systematically evaluating Amil could take years! Kidding. I’ve been going round and round with them for years. The bottom line is they see the Bible as figurative rather than literal. If the Bible is all figurative, it can mean just about anything. It’s meaning is in the eye of the holder like a work of art, greatly reducing its value in my opinion.

            I noticed that many in the Amil camp tend not to believe in the literal six day creation either. I prayed about this and got an answer. God said to me, “If they do not believe the beginning, they will not believe the end.” I said that makes sense. He said again, “If they do not believe the beginning, they WILL NOT believe the end. This is my will.”

            Essentially, God blinds the eyes of those who are weak in faith so they will not see or hear. It all starts with faith. Something God values highly, attributing faith to righteousness in Abraham’s case. This lack of faith blindness is what God is using to blind Israel from the truth for a time. Faith cannot be underestimated. This is the root issue of man, from Adam to this very day.

          2. Faith is what pleases God, however, I am not judging the faith of others. I leave that to God. I try to testify to God’s Word and about Jesus. Others faith is in the hands of the Holy Spirit. All of us are in error in some ways about Scripture. The day will come when Jesus reveals it to us face to face, and like the disciples on the Emmasus Roads we will be amazed and our hearts will burn within us.

          3. God has built answers into his Word, Harvos, that even incorrect interpretation cannot answer. I learned this writing the new book on the Rapture. It is at the moment a person is confronted with these answers that he/she has to choose to change their beliefs or continue to trust their own theory over Gods. Mostly those who stay with their own human understanding are because of a person’s denominational affiliation. Let me tell you the story of two men.

            One is Marvin Rosenthal. He was the Director of Friends of Israel, a very large missionary outreach. He was confronted with the truth of the Pre-Wrath Rapture by his friend Robert Van Kampen. Rosenthal was convicted and went to his board who weren’t convicted. They gave him a choice, renounce the truth of God’s Word or quit. Rosenthal resigned. He paid a price, but his book on the Rapture has been an enormous influence on millions including me.

            The second is one of the most famous pastors in America (who shall remain nameless). Rosenthal presented the Pre-Wrath Rapture to him and he was convicted as well and went to his board. They gave this famous pastor the same ultimatum. Recant the Pre-Wrath or resign. He recanted and preaches Pre-Trib to this day. However, I don’t think God is done with this pastor just yet. Pray for the mystery project and his heart. Pray for all the leaders who will receive it.

            The hearts of men are like four soils according to Luke 8. Only one of the four accepts the seed and bears a crop.

        1. Then why did God send the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Romans to disposess them from the land sworn to them?

          Are there no conditions to posess eternal life and the world to come?

          Dueteronomy 28:63- Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

          God fulfilled all his promises to them.

          1. You gentlemen are having your own side conversation, which is normally good. However, I would ask everyone to refrain from discussing these other aspects of Amill. until we get to them. In a couple weeks we will get to God’s promises to Israel.

            Right now, attached to this article, we are discussing the biblical basis for a 7000 year process to restore all things. Our next article will be about whether the 1000 years is literal or figurative. Then we will discuss the First and Second Resurrections, etc.

  14. In Genesis 6:3, God prefaces his later shemitah and jubilee laws to the Israelites, where he limits the years of humankind on earth to 6,000.

    1. That is a common interpretation of the verse Ken. This is based on a theory that jubilee cycles are 50 years. However, that is a western thinking. In the book of Jubilees from the second century BC, it is clear that at that time jubilee cycles were 49 years with the jubilee being the same as the first year of the next cycle. This makes sense as it provides for a continuous cycle of sabbatical 7 year cycles. Just like Daniel’s 70 weeks being 490 years not 500.

  15. Nelson,
    Wow! You have totally mischaracterized my position as an Amillenialist. This is not the majority position of the churches either. Most churches teach premillenial dispensationalism which is what you and most everyone on this site believes. You are looking for a kingdom set up by Jesus who will rule from Jerusalem and thus fulfill all promises made to the Jews. (Correct me if I am wrong). According to premillenialist, we are in the church age and are moving to the kingdom age with Jesus ruling one thousand literal years from Jerusalem with the Jews acknowledging him as their Messiah.
    This is exactly what Joel Richardson wrote in his book ‘When a Jew Rules the World.’
    Again, this position is called premillenial dispensationalism. I asked you in the last post if this was your position but you did not acknowledge that you were.

    As an Amillenialist I believe in the prewrath rapture, I believe in Daniels 70th week, and. St. Augustine (354 – 430 CE), the “Father of Amillennialism” was largely responsible for the establishment of amillennialism as the formal church belief. It remained the generally accepted system throughout Christianity until after the Reformation in the 16th century.
    You claim however Origen was it’s progenitor.

    I am not sure where to continue the conversation based on your misunderstanding of my position as a Amillenialist.

    I close with Christ’s words regarding his kingdom. “My kingdom is not of this world…”-John 18:36

    1. This article is not about you and your specific beliefs Christopher which I did not know until this comment, and frankly I still do not know as it seems vague. This series of articles will be about traditional Amillennialism which characterizes a vast portion of traditional denominations such as Catholics and mainline Protestants. If this article doesn’t answer your specific questions wait for the next several and see if they do.

      Dispensationalism is defined as separate ages where God deals with man differently. I believe God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He always saved by Grace through faith not by Law, although he reveals his plan and full revelation over time. So no, I’m not a dispensationalist in my mind. I do agree with what you wrote above as Joel Richardson’s position for the most part. Terms like church age and kingdom age are not my choice of terms.

      Augustine had massive impact on the acceptance of Amillennialism, but the theory dates back further than that and relies on Origen’s theories. Who we call the “Father” of the theory is immaterial to me personally.

      In regard to John 18:36, of course Jesus would say his kingdom was not of this world. At the moment he spoke those words and at this moment in time, Satan was and still is the ruler (ARCHON) of the world. Jesus’s was King only in heaven when he spoke to Pilate. But that will change when the 7 Sealed Scroll opens.

      “Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

      Look at the end of the verse, “but as it is” This demonstrates that the location of the Kingdom was only temporarily “not of this world.” Jesus always chose his words perfectly.

      Again, if you wish to participate in any of the future articles on this subject, please do.

  16. Timeline of post millennialis seem fine (without detail of tribulation or wrath) but i disagree with some of their doctrine. 1000 years must be literal.

  17. Nelson

    Untill about three years ago I hadn’t even heard of Amillennialism. I was taken aback that people could believe it’s doctrine.

    “They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)”

    Those words couldn’t be clearer. Without the millennial period the Bible doesn’t make sense. Isiaha speaks of a future time when a child will die at one hundred, but when the new Jerusalem comes, there will be no more death.

    Zechariah 14 talks of a temple , but there will be no temple when New Jerusalem comes.

    Your whole series on this will be interesting, just a shame there has to be one😉

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