Did the Beast of Revelation Live and Die Before?

We know from the vision of John in Rev. 17 that the Beast “was, is not, and will be.” So … did the Beast of Revelation live and die before?


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This is a very interesting question. Let’s examine John’s statement to find an answer.

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth,whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. (Rev. 17:8)

John’s statement implies or even demands that the Beast existed previously in history. He uses the phrase “was and is not and will come” which is a corrupted description of what Jesus will do that he “was, is, and will come again.” We can speculate when this beast may have been and even whether a former earthly figure may have been possessed by this demon beast.

There have been multiple theories about who or what the Beast was. The primary theory of Roman Antichrist supporters is that he was Nero or another Roman emperor. Some say Abbadon, the destroyer (Rev. 9:11). Some say Antiochus IV of the Seleucid Empire. In fact, the list of candidates is very diverse.

We need to begin by learning as much as we can about the Beast, then perhaps, we can gain clues about his previous identity, the time when “he was.”

The Beast’s Description

The first aspect of the Beast that we need to understand is that he has 3 natures: a demon, a man, and an empire; all in one Beast. We discussed this very confusing 3 part nature in THIS ARTICLE. I recommend starting there if you are not familiar with the Beast’s 3 part nature.

We need to keep this 3 part nature in mind at all times because sometimes the Bible is discussing one nature, sometimes two aspects of his nature, and sometimes all three. This makes for very confusing analysis.

John begins describing the Beast this way:

And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness (desert); and I saw a woman (the Harlot) sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. (Rev. 17:3)

This is actually a very informative verse of scripture. Let’s look at what is revealed:

  • First, it is part of a vision. The vision is not necessarily happening at the time of John wrote Revelation (AD 95). It could be a vision of the future or past. The timing of the events in this chapter are key and we will follow them carefully as they reveal much.
  • The Beast is in the wilderness or desert. Now the desert has always been symbolic of “sin” and it is where Jesus encountered Satan. The desert is also literal IMO. If the Beast was in Rome, this would make no sense. However, if the Beast was in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, this description would fit perfectly.
  • The Beast is scarlet and has Seven Heads and Ten horns. In this way the Beast is the mirror image of the Dragon who is Satan described in Rev. 12 which is red and has 7 heads and 10 horns.

In Rev. 13 we are given more facts about the Beast and his description:

And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. (Rev. 13:1-2)

Again we see the same 7 heads and 10 horns but we learn a little bit more about the Beast.

  • It comes out of the sea
  • the crowns are on the horns (the dragon’s crowns are on his heads)
  • the blasphemous names are on the heads
  • the beast is a composite of the Lion, Bear, and Leopard from Dan. 7

The Seven Heads of the Beast

We need to stop here and discuss the seven heads in more detail. The Beast of Revelation is a composite of the Lion, Bear, and Leopard of Daniel 7. Between them these 3 Beast animals have 6 heads which are representative of ancient kingdoms:

Lion = has one head, Babylon

Bear = has one head, Persia

Leopard = had four heads which represent the four kingdoms it was divided into after the death of Alexander the Great: Macedonia (Greece), Asia Minor (Turkey) , Assyria, and Egypt

In Daniel 7, the fourth terrifying Beast has one head which makes the Seventh.

The Blasphemous names on the heads are indicative of how these empires blasphemed God and attempted to defeat God’s plan and God’s people. These seven empires then represent the seven world empires that attempted to thwart God’s plan of redemption and EXACTLY MATCH the heads found in Daniel 7:

  1. Egypt
  2. Assyria
  3. Babylon
  4. Persia
  5. Hellenistic (Greece)
  6. Roman (Eastern Roman Empire – Asia Minor)
  7. Islamic Caliphate

These are the seven heads of Satan and of the Beast confirmed  by Daniel 7 and by history (the historic empires). Because Dan. 7 exactly matches history this is a very strong confirmation that this interpretation of the 7 heads is correct.

There is a subtle difference between the Dragon (Satan) and the Beast. The crowns are are the Dragon’s heads; all the power and authority rests in the Empires. The crowns are on the Beast’s horns; all the authority rests on the 10 horns in the Beast. In the Beast which is modern, the historic empires are just that: historic. They no longer carry any power.

The meaning of the 7 heads in modern terms is the geography of the Beast Empire. It will include all of those ancient empires. This then equates with the EMPIRE aspect of the Beast.

The Leviathan = the Beast

Isaiah tells us more about this creature or a similar one:

In that day (the Day of the Lord) the Lord will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, with His fierce and great and mighty sword, Even Leviathan the twisted serpent; and He will kill the dragon who lives in the sea. (Isa. 27:1)

We have a match. We know from Rev. 13:1 and Dan. 7:1-2 that the Beast comes out of the sea, and from this passage in Isaiah we see that Leviathan is punished on the Day of the Lord. This can be the demonic beast of Revelation and might be Satan as well. Satan is imprisoned for a thousand years (not immediately killed). But if the the Day of the Lord is 1000 years long, this could be Satan as well.

And according to Psalms, Leviathan has multiple heads!

You crushed the heads of Leviathan; You gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness . . . Do not deliver the soul of Your turtledove to the wild beast.(Psalm 74:14, 19)

Ugaritic (nation near ancient Israel) legends state Leviathan had 7 heads. Again this is a match with the Beast with 7 heads found in Revelation. Both the multiple heads and the use of the term “Beast” is found here in Psalms. I believe this is the first use of “beast” in scripture in reference to the enemy of God’s people who arises in the 70th Week.

In a future article, we will discuss more about what we learn about the Leviathan and how it relates to the Beast. Obviously this is the DEMON aspect of the Beast.

Did the Beast of Revelation live and die before?

Now that we have analyzed the Beast and his description, we are ready to begin to answer this question.

In 2 Thessalonians, Paul makes this very interesting statement:

And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. (2 Thess. 2:6)

Paul was observing that the Antichrist was being restrained at the time he wrote  2 Thessalonians! Rome was in power at that time (around AD 50) and from Paul’s writing we know the Beast was already in the Abyss being restrained. Obviously it was not the Antichrist, the man, being restrained, but the DEMON being restrained.

This is what John speaks of in Revelation:

They (the Beast’s seven heads) are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. (Rev. 17: 10-11)

This is one of the strangest verses in scripture. Part of the problem is the definition of “beast.” Using the three component theory of the Beast’s make-up this means the EMPIRE, the MAN, or the DEMON (or a combination) have been on this earth before and return as the final beast.

If we combine this with Paul’s statement in 2 Thess. 2:6 it appears this Beast was already being restrained in AD 50 (forty years prior to the writing of Revelation.) What does this tell us?

  • It tells us the Beast probably cannot be Roman!
  • The sixth head of the Beast is the Roman head. This is the head John tells us “one is” as of AD 96. Yet the Beast was being restrained in AD 50! And as of John’s writing in AD 96 the Beast “is not.” It cannot be both “is” and “is not” thus it can’t be the Roman head.
  • At least with absolute certainty we can say the Beast was on the earth prior to AD 50. (The only dead Roman Emperors prior to this date were Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and possibly Julius).

This means the Beast “was” prior to the majority of the Roman Empire. Revelation tells us the Beast was one of the first seven kings (“The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven”) and will be the eighth king (the Antichrist) as well. This means the Beast possessed one of the five kings prior to the Romans: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, or Hellenistic. It literally could be any of these kings/kingdoms:

Egypt: Pharaoh

Assyria: Sennacherib

Babylon: Nebuchadnezzar

Persia: Cyrus

Hellenistic: Antiochus IV

In scripture, Cyrus gave the original command for the Temple to be rebuilt (a righteous act). Isaiah 45 attributes some factors to Cyrus that are usually attributed to Jesus. For this reason (since we are “surmising” or guessing), I think we should eliminated Cyrus as being the possessed King.

Elsewhere in scripture, the AC is called “The Assyrian” and “The King of Babylon.” Additionally “Antiochus IV” is the most direct foreshadow of Antichrist we are given.  For these reasons, I think Sennacherib, Nebuchadnezzar, and Antiochus IV are all  possibilities. In my mind, however, Antiochus IV is the best guess.

Antiochus and the Antichrist

Antiochus IV was one of the “Kings of the North” mentioned in Dan. 11; a king of the Seleucid Empire. Many commentators consider him to be the “little horn” of Dan. 7 and Dan. 8 as well as the subject of Dan. 11:21-35. Many other commentators believe these passages are foreshadowed by Antiochus but only receive their final fulfillment in the career of Antichrist.

What if these two men will actually be possessed by the same demon: the Beast? This would explain why Daniel’s prophecies seem to apply to both equally. Larry Cockerham has written a wonderful article explaining this in detail saying there are 8 similarities between their careers:

  1. Both involve times prior to one of the Comings of Jesus
  2. Both begin as a little horn (a minor political figure)
  3. Both persecute the people of God
  4. Both will blaspheme God
  5. Both will use peace to achieve their aims
  6. Both will desecrate the Temple with an Abomination of Desolation
  7. Both will be broken without human intervention
  8. Both will be demon possessed

This final similarity is the one I want to focus on. If true, it is very likely that the demon that possessed Antiochus was the Beast. Antiochus was considered a “mad man” by those around him. The Jews in fact, had a nickname for him: “Madness made Manifest.” He was incredibly violent and committed horrible atrocities, especially against God’s people. He made Jewish religious customs a capital crime. And Dan. 8:23 even says he will understand “dark sentences.” In total, it is likely that he was possessed by a demonic power.

Antichrist and Mohammed

Is it possible that the DEMON that rises from the Abyss is the Leviathan and the same one that possessed Antiochus? I believe it is. This fits nicely with the scriptural account.

However, Antiochus IV is a relatively unknown character outside of Jewish and Christian circles. Yet the Bible has this to say:

Those who dwell on the earth,whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. (Rev. 17:8)

I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast. (Rev. 13:3)

First of all, this passage tells us that the unsaved will “see” the Beast. They will be able to see the EMPIRE and they will be able to see Antichrist, the MAN, but not the DEMON. So the aspect of the return of an historic empire is certainly in play here.  As we discussed above, the Islamic Caliphate (Ottoman Empire), which suffered a fatal head wound in 1924 will return. But will the world wonder when they see that? Will they truly be “amazed?”

The words “wonder” and “amazed” from these two passages are actually the same Greek word THAUMAZO. It carries the meaning of astonishment or marveling. The crowds in Jerusalem “marveled” (THAUMAZO) at the disciples speaking foreign tongues. Will the re-establishment of an Islamic Caliphate “amaze” the world in this same sense? I don’t really think so. It might alarm the world, but not amaze it.

However, what about the MAN, the Antichrist? What if he appears to be healed from a fatal head wound as well? Would this “amaze” or “astonish” the world? Absolutely. This would qualify as a seemingly miraculous event. And this is the reason I think the AC may appear to be healed in this way; that it is the one aspect of “healing the wound” that will astonish the world.

This would certainly qualify as “was, is not, and will come.” At that time, might the Antichrist also claim to be a historic person? This is uncertain. Might he claim to be one of the seven previous kings? I don’t know, however, each of the other two aspects of the Beast (EMPIRE and DEMON) will demonstrate a return of one of the other seven historic empires. And the Antichrist is the most visible and dramatic aspect of the Beast.

I believe there is a very good chance that the Antichrist will claim to be the seventh King (Mohammed) after he appears to be healed. This is the only way that the Antichrist will unite Sunni and Shia. The divide between these factors began over who would be the successor of Mohammed when he died. Only the return of Mohammed himself could solve this divide. In a way this would “heal the wound” of the Beast.

Claiming to be the return of this historic figure would also give the Antichrist the “right” to claim to be a semi-divine being who is worthy of worship as we discussed in this PREVIOUS ARTICLE.

I don’t believe there is direct biblical proof that that AC will claim to be Mohammed, however this indirect proof supports that possibility and is strong enough that I think we should watch for this possibility.

Summary

In conclusion, this is one of the strangest portions of prophecy; that the Beast is a return of a previous historic person or empire. There are three aspects to the Beast (DEMON, EMPIRE and the MAN, Antichrist). In my opinion, each will arise as the “return” of a previous portion of the 7 historic empires.

DEMON – return of the demon who possessed Antiochus IV

EMPIRE – return of the Ottoman Empire

ANTICHRIST – possible return of Mohammed

 

 

 

68 thoughts on “Did the Beast of Revelation Live and Die Before?”

  1. Food for thought to all regarding the beast that was and is not and yet is . The name Judas should come to mind to those of you who are bible believers. Judas was not an ordinary man. Jesus said he was a devil—not full of the Devil or like a devil but “a devil”. Judas hanged himself but there is no indication that he died. Scripture says “he went to his place. Acts 1:25. ( bottomless pit perhaps). John who wrote the revelation said this. The beast that was ( Judas was among the twelve). The beast that is not. ( because he went to his place) The beast that yet is. (He will come “out” of the bottomless pit during the great tribulation as a “christ” yet he will be a devil. John 6:70. I have some info on this subject on my website: http://www.goodbooklets.net called the “AntiChrist 666. Visit me online/

  2. The Ac is islamist that’s for sure. The problem is that you are looking based on prophecy that already fulfilled then trying to force it combining with another unrelated prophecies…..that’s your fault.

  3. Ken,

    I was referring to John 5:43 assuming the AC claiming messiahship. He does not. It is that SPECIFIC man I refer to, not just men claiming to be the messiah as Nelson and you state Matthew 24:4-5. You are wrongly commingling two different concepts. I don’t see these verses referring to the same person. Just how I view it.

    Blessings!

  4. Ken,

    Nelson is correct in his last response to you about to your paraphrase, ““I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.”

    The common assumption by you and many others is that it refers to the AC. That is simply false and presumed and you are doing esisgesis interpretation and is completely subjective. There is no factual basis to support that presumed claim. When folks use it to say the Antichrist must be a false Jewish Messiah, they are then violating other very relevant passages such as Daniel 8 and 11, which show the Antichrist will be a gentile ruler.

    Blessings!

    1. Julie,
      How can you interpret the Word of Truth..Jesus any other way that what he said? Matthew wrote what he said. Yet you say there are no factual basis to support what Jesus said.
      The Islamic AC people get pretty riled up when their theory is challenged to lack proof.

  5. Your premise is that the AC will be muslim. There is no proof to that in the bible anywhere. However, the jews will accept him as per the will of God. “I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.”

    Remember this scriputre also….”For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie”, Paul is not just speaking to only the Jews in this passage, it is anyone who does not believe the Truth–which is Jesus Christ. The “lie” is Satan in the form of the AC.

    1. There is proof his empire is Islamic, but you are correct, the direct proof the man himself is Islamic isn’t there. It is the most logical and likely alternative for a Muslim to rule an Islamic empire, but not real proof.

      The first quote you give probably has nothing to do with Jews accepting the AC, they make a covenant with him but that is different from worshiping him. Many will but not the Remnant.

      The second quote has to do with deception and again has nothing to do with the Jewish remnant.

    2. Kensme the Assyrian region in the middle east contains more than just Assyrians, the Assyrian empire encompassed Iraq, parts of Syria, Turkey and Iran. That region is dominated by Islam today. If you look it up Turkey is 98% Islamic, Syria 90%, Iraq 98.6% and Iran 99.7%. The region where the capital of the Assyrian empire was located is currently under ISIS control. Also the AC/Assyrian is clearly called the king of Babylon (Iraq) in Isaiah 14 plain as day. So there’s a good chance he will be from Iraq but its 100% he will be from the Islamic dominated region of the Assyrian empire. Remember also the AC comes against the land of Israel and Jerusalem in the last days. I can’t picture a Christian doing this.

      1. I never said he would be a christian or jew. Just as he shows himself as god, he can show himself as something acceptable to all three Abrahamic belief systems. What he accomplishes in a mere 7 years is greater than all previous tyrants in history. My point is 600,000 Assyrian/christians live in Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. These are Islamic territories as you say. Yet they are not Islamic. They are persecuted constantly, but they have survived. This is analogous to the AC arising in the same territory but not being Islamic. Nothing is said about his beliefs until mid week at the Abomination and break of the treaty. This is also when he reveals himself as a resurrected Lord of a previous kingdom. And, many surmise, he will be completely controlled/possessed a slave to Satan. Here’s a supposition: an behind the scene prince/ruler makes a covenant of peace over Jersualem. To be shared by the three Abrahamic belief systems. He stays low profile, a man of peace but all the while building his network of terror. No one knows what religion he has or what god he worships. Based on the climate of politics and religion today, this is entirely feasible. Morely likely, IMO, than being Islamic

        The trend today is jumping on the Islamic AC band wagon because of the Arab Spring, 9/11, Iran, and ISIS. I would not close the book and say …yep the AC is Islamic/muslim and that’s it. But he will definitely be of Assyrian descent. And when he establishes the Abomination, he will reveal his Assyrian/Babylonian pantheism/polytheism religion and foreign god of fortresses by is brutal dictatorship and murderous persecutions. Those alive then, will hear him say which Assyrian king he claims to be, and which God he claims to be his father.
        That’s why those living in previously wonderful Jerusalem are told by Jesus to run to the mountains; don’t go back in the house for anything. After hearing say he is a resurrected Assyrian King and his Father is Satan (Osiris, Baal, Murdoch), they will run.
        The rest of the non Christ world will be overcome and mesmerized by this, perceived to be, superior being. “I will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie”.

        I’m not buying the AC is unequivocally muslim just because he rises from muslim territory. To me there is as much evidence of this as the PreTrib rapture.

        1. Kensme good post I even think that the AC could be just an ally of the middle eastern nation for example Vladimir Putin with so much influence being had in the region with Turkey Iran Syria and even overatures to Israel !

        2. Kensme yes there may be 600,000 Assyrian Christians living in those areas but they are Islam dominated countries because there are tens of millions of Muslims in those countries as well and their Islamic governed countries. But there are other subtle hints in scripture that show him to be Islamic. Like in Revelation 20 it says I saw the souls of them that were “beheaded” for the witness of Jesus. One might say so what he could just be a dictator that uses a gillotien. But if you said what was the preferred method of execution of the Romans one would say crucifixion, the Nazis one would say gas chambers and Islam one would say “beheading”. He does not honor the desires of women. Meaning he gives them no rights compared to a man, doesn’t care about there desires and treats them like meat. Islam does this with their women. He thinks to change times and laws. Change times to an Islamic calendar because they use different time than we do and change the laws to Sharia law. The book of Daniel even says the AC’s kingdom would be a divided kingdom, it (AC”s kingdom) is also represented By the feet and toes of iron and clay on the statue in Daniel 2. Meaning the kingdom will be partly strong and partly broken. What is the division of this kingdom? Well it could be (most likely) Sunni and Shiite or Arab and non Arab Muslims. Just because a lot of people who have been studying these things very hard for many years are starting to realize that the Antichrist is Islamic or at the very least from the area of the ancient Assyrian empire doesn’t mean these people are wrong.

  6. He will be from an Islamic region, a christian people, and make a covenant with the Jews. At the time of the covenant, he will not be known as the Beast of Revelation. He will be the good guy on the white horse conquering through charisma and oration, but the world knows he has fire power (bow, but not using arrows). He is the son of the Father of Lies. Look at Obama, for example. He rode in the same way. Under the premise of a christian but raised as a muslim. He also was a great orator. It’s not the religion that will mean the difference, it will be the message and its delivery by the AC. Why would the Jews accept a muslim? They want the Jews annihilated. Why would Christians accept a muslim? They are killing christians as we speak. That is how extraordinary this covenant will be. That is why Gabriel calls it “the covenant with the many…many religions. Coincidentally, these three belief systems trace their origins to Abraham. All nations trace themselves to Noah. The Assyrians descended from Ham, through Cush. Christians and Jews descended from Seth. Mohammad descended from Ishmael. He will deceive everyone and be accepted by everyone, except the very elect– thanks to God severing the great tribulation.
    These three religious systems stem from Abraham, that will be the bait by the AC. The temple will be built, the dome will stay put, the christian holy sites will be worshipped without resistance. The Islamic religion would not allow a muslim to do this. He would be a blasphemer.
    After 3.5 years, he then reveals that he is not muslim, christian, jew or a follower of any contemporary belief system. He will introduce his foreign god. The god of fortresses….an Assyrian god dating back to Babylon. And reveal himself to be an Assyrian prince/ruler. He has no interest in Jesus, Mahdi, Mohammad, or Abraham.

    1. The Assyrian people today are crying out to the nations for assistance and protection from persecution by Muslims. It is more unnoticed than the christian persecution. Sunni ISIS has destroyed the historic Assyrian city of Mosul and all of its archaeological remains. The little horn will arise from these people. And if he is a resurrected Assyrian ruler, what will he do to those muslims once he sets up the abomination. He will not only persecute christians and jews, he will seek revenge against ISIS as well. He may be the one that conquers ISIS and the world will be at peace for a time during the first half of the 70th week. Who can make war with the beast, who is like him?

  7. Nelson,

    If Micah is correct in prophesy that the AC will be Assyrian, then we have to look at the Assyrian population in the regions they reside–particularly in the Middle East today. Regions: northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and eastern Syria. Here is description of the Assyrian people from one of their websites:
    Welcome to the home of the indigenous Aramaic-speaking Christian Assyrians of the Middle East.
    The Assyrians of today are the descendants of the ancient Assyrian people, one of the earliest civilizations emerging in the Middle East, and have a history spanning over 6760 years.
    Assyrians are not Arabian or Arabs, we are not Kurdish, our religion is not Islam. The Assyrians are Christian, with our own unique language, culture and heritage. Although the Assyrian empire ended in 612 B.C., history is replete with recorded details of the continuous presence of the Assyrian people till the present time.

    There are several other Assyrian websites with virtually the same introduction. Notice how they differentiate themselves from muslims, arabs, and kurds. They are predominantly in northern Iraq. They have been persecuted throughout the 19th and 20th centuries.

    My theory is that the AC will arise out of the modern day Assyrian population, with his lineage traced back to Noah. He will speak Aramaic, the same language Jesus spoke, among many others. Many scholars agree that Jesus spoke Aramaic because it was the language Noah and his family spoke, antedeluvian. It was carried over post flood, then confounded by God at Babel.
    Before Babel the people who settled in the mesopotamian region spoke one language. Babel occurred nearly 1000 years after the flood.

    If Satan parallels his existence and goals after Jesus, then these observations should certainly be considered. Having such a cross cultural/ethnic background would make him a great candidate for strengthening the covenant with the many. He would be easily accepted by christians, tolerated by muslims, and supported by the Jews for allowing the temple to be rebuilt and sacrifices to begin. Then mid 70th week he reveals himself to be a resurrected Assyran King.

    The fact that the Assyrian people of today have no land held nation of their own is a depiction of the the little horn that arises from no kingdom/nation, but resides within them as a nation of people (like the Jewish nation in diaspora ). It can be said that the Assyrians today are in their own diaspora.

    1. Why do you think a non-muslim would be accepted by muslims? I do like the final thought: “no land held nation of their own is a depiction of the the little horn that arises from no kingdom/nation, but resides within them as a nation of people (like the Jewish nation in diaspora )”

      1. The Kurds have no own state for over 2000 years either. (They have the Medes in their ancestry.) They roughly live in the same area as the Assyrians, but i.m.o. the Kurds are a better candidate for the little horn for they are Muslims.

        By the way: the famous Sultan Saladin who conquered Jerusalem from the crusaders was a Kurd. He is still famous in the Muslim world; before the war, his tomb in Damascus was on of the most visited burial sites worldwide of Islamic leaders.

  8. Adamant

    7th kingdom is where 10 horns exist it is the origin of the beast/islam but not represent the beast as majority population (muslim). muslim is 90% sunni (8th) while 7th (620-661 ad–for little while) represent shia (bloodline leadership) only 9% of muslim. So when Revelation mention him as the 10 horns beast means allah/islam (shia+sunni).

    mohamad is only 1 of 10 (horns), the other nine are abu bakr, umar, utman, ali, hasan, husein, abu ubaidah, jafr bin abi talib, khalid bin walid. those 10 leaders spread islam through jihad wars (give power and authority to the beast –Rev 17:12-13)—try to google rashidun and umayyad.

    Nelson:
    1. You didn’t compare Rev 17 with Dan 7, who is little horn? you have to understand that what little horn did ( changes law, changes time etc) already happened. and who 3 subdue horns? who’s the other 7 horns?

    2. Many muslim claimed embarrassed with isis. 8th would represent the beast the world will follow (non blood system/sunni). isis probably represent 2nd bowl of wrath, 1st wrath was iraq vs iran war (chemical weapon used)

    3. Google: type Assyrian empire map or Egypt empire map then click images.

    1. Okay this is the last post on this topic, donel:

      1. little horn of Dan 7 and Dan 8 is the coming Antichrist. changing times and laws and plucking out 3 horns are all yet future.
      2. We haven’t even had the first seal yet let alone the bowls of wrath! When did the first trumpet burn up 1/3 of the earth? When was 1/3 of the fresh water poisoned? Obviously never, so no trumpets or bowls yet.
      3. a map isn’t a historic link.

  9. Phil, if the heads represent kings not kingdom then how can 10 horns also counted as kings…kings(horns) within kings (heads)??? if you compare Rev 17 and Dan 7 it is clear, I’m with Nelson on this one, heads mean kingdoms.

    Sorry regarding my lack of patient Nelson, usually during exchanging arguments with other (online) replies in minutes or at least hours not days. For me it is ok to get insult during debate because i insulting them too (after years debating i get use to it) but need quick reply

    1. Little while mean short period, ottoman arise around 1300 AD and end after more than 600 years. Revelation usually give exact time like 42 months or half hour or one hour etc so i don’t think little while referring to God time standard but human time standard beside if 7th can live 600 years why Revelation even bother to mentioned ‘little while’???

    2. One head wounded but heal—when ottoman fall she replaced by republic system—caliphate system is dead not heal–there is no legitimate caliphate for almost 100 years. When 8th arise he will subdue last 3 leaders of 10 horns 4th kingdom aka 7th, little horn aka 8th is the beast.

    3. Sorry to inform you that Egypt and Assyria did conquer Jerusalem (google it). Several years ago one tomb with hieroglyph discovered in Israel date back to Egypt era.

    1. In reply donel:

      1. Caliphates began around AD 600, so its 1400 years of Islamist empires, God warned us the seventh MUST last a little while.
      2. Whether ISIS is the healing of the head we don’t know yet. I rather suspect we will see 4 caliphates before the one the AC leads. This prophecy awaits fulfillment.
      3. references please. my google search shows nothing. The bible doesn’t show this either.

      1. If the Seventh would be there “only a little while” – could this refer to the demon-entity only?

        1. it first guided (for instance) Antioch IV Epifanes, in John’s time already in the past;
        2. then, in John’s time yet future, it would guide the person Muhammad from when he became murderous and treacherous and successfull unti his death, which is only ten years (AD 622-632);
        3. and finally in the Eighth the very same demon entity will guide the Beast king?

        This would solve the puzzling “little” in “stay for a little while”…

        1. I don’t think so Adamant. First, I believe the phrase “MUST remain a little while” actually refers to a long while. If someone means a short time No one says “must” rather they say “only remain a little while”. “must” implies an imposed condition. For instance, if you asked me how long I was going to be imprisoned (an imposed negative condition) and I said I “must remain a little while”, you would understand that I would be there a longer time.

          Second the demonic aspect involves the 8th it appears not the 7th I could certainly be wrong

          This is highly confusing section of scripture.

          1. I’d say it’s suppose to be confusing since Ac will be revealed in his the Lord’s time ..for sure these things will make sense at the right time !

  10. Hi Nelson

    I do read your blog, but as some of it is over my head, I don’t comment, just read comments of others.

    Just thought I’d say hope you recover soon, it’s very good of you to continue with your blog even in a poorly state of health, I’m sure your readers really appreciate that very much.

    I remember being moved by the testimony of how the Lord worked on your Dad.I have a similar kind of thing with my own Dad, so that was an encouragement.

    Hope you’re up and at them sooner than you expect, the Lord bless you and yours.

  11. I have proved to you before that the heads represent kings, not kingdoms. You obviously don’t place much value on correct translation of the original language.

    Read in Greek or English Rev 13:3 can’t be taken to mean a ‘literal’ fatal head wound. The phrases “as it were” – “seemed to have” etc, etc negates that understanding.

    http://biblehub.com/revelation/13-3.htm

    1. Even Dr. Thomas Ice (Roman AC expert) when debating Richardson this month agreed with me that heads are kingdoms. Your argument carries zero weight. We have debated it to death. no more discussions.

      As far as not literal rising from death, yes that seems to be what text says.

    1. Please be patient, donel and all who have comments. Please remember that I was just hospitalized 11 days, had surgery on my arm and am in a sling and cast and am typing with one finger. I am also facing open heart surgery in two weeks and have many doctor visits. Comments that require a reply are slower.

  12. Julie, mecca theory is pointless just too many problems. I have been debating about this on another website for sure that theory was weak. Joel and Walid always talk about this and i’m sorry to say they both wrong.

    Word -The West- was origin from west and east rome. The west capital is Rome (Catholic) while the east is Constantinople (Orthodox), after islam defeating Byzantium technically the east move to north (Russia). And both riding same beast (islam), the western alliance riding sunni while the east riding shia…..how can nobody see this?? it is in front of our eyes.

  13. Yes, as Nelson says, this is all very murky stuff and Joel Richardson upcoming book is the target of this mysterious subject, specifically Revelation 17 and Mystery Babylon. It is one of the most hotly debated prophetic topics in all of biblical prophecy along with rapture timing. I’ve seen in the past the topic of Mystery Babylon debated for months on prophecy boards! The upcoming book by Joel is sure to be a barn-burner! Check out the cover he posted on Twitter…https://twitter.com/Joel7Richardson/status/76603470782586470

    1. Julie,
      The link u posted doesn’t work. I have been waiting to see Joel present his take on Mystery Babylon.
      I personally know that it is Jerusalem. You cannot make a scriptural case for any other city. As Christians that is hard to digest, but that is why it is called the book of Revelation. I did not see it until Gods word proclaimed it!
      Anyone willing to debate on this subject I welcome you to challenge my position.
      Welcome back to the land of the living, Walter.

  14. (Isaiah 14:1-4) For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

    2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the Lord for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

    3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, (the day of the Lord)

    4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor (of Israel) ceased! the golden city (Babylon) ceased!

  15. Steve Muller, there are problems with your revived caliphate theory.
    1. Bible clearly stated 7th will only exist for a while unless you pointing finger which caliphate is that you will not know 8th.
    2. 8th will replace the 7th so if 7th is historically 1400 years ago then 8th already appear (logically).
    3. We know that all 7 kingdom controlling Jerusalem, if 8th is futuristic then who/how can beat Israel (a nuclear nation).

    I will stand with my opinion 8th is sunni which is 90% of muslim population that represent the beast.

    The beast– who once now is not and will come– is not the exact 10 horns beast because the previous beast (who once) clearly 10 kings and several heads (or all) not appear yet. This is a symbol of king priest system. God of Abraham only allow one king priest that is Jesus while the beast wants the caliph. Islam is the only religion that openly (written in quran) challenge Christianity and Judaism, islam is the apostasy Bible talking about.

    1. Many problems with your logic donel.
      1. The bible actually says “the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he MUST remain a little while.” Must is the key word showing it is actually a long time in human terms, little time in God’s terms.
      2. The 7th had what appeared to be fatal head wound in 1924 not 1400 years ago
      3. Not all controlled Jerusalem, Egypt and Assyria did not

  16. Steve and Nelson I don’t know why people say that the seventh empire is the one to be revived because it says the beast that “was” (in John’s past) and “is not” (at John’s time) is the eighth. That would imply that it would actually be one of the first five. Islam does crush the entire area of the first five empires though, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. But one thing I found that was interesting is on the coming Bible prophecy reformations page he pointed out that in scripture all these empires exist during the Millennium except Babylon it is the only empire that is destroyed forever, never to be inhabited again. I would conclude that the reason it is destroyed forever is because it is the headquarters of this beast where it is voiced from (mouth of the beast).

  17. True. Also, the term “Babylon” could be a “roving entity” as I think Joel Richardson teaches in one of his DVDs. For example, at one point in history, the term “Babylon” appears to be applied to Rome (1 Peter 5:13).

    In Revelation 12:3, each successive historical head has a crown (seven in total) because they each ruled at different times. However, in the final end times iteration of the seven headed beast, I believe all the horns may be on one head only, and interestingly the crowns have moved off the “heads” (12:3) onto those horns (13:1). There are now ten crowns for the ten end times horns. That is, all the authority (crowns) will be conferred upon that final head or beast empire – Satan’s last attempt to thwart the plan of God.

  18. I believe Revelation 17:8 and 11 need to be taken together when considering the eight empires:
    1. Egypt
    2. Assyria
    3. Babylon (“the beast who once was” i.e. Babylon)
    4. Medo-Persia
    5. Greece
    6. Rome (“now is not” – John could say this of Babylon)
    7. Historical Caliphate
    8. Revived End Times Caliphate (“and yet will come is an eighth king”)

    Babylon “once was”, “was not” during John’s time, but “will be” revived in the last days, and the world will be astonished (Revelation 17:8 / Habakkuk 1:5-11, 2:2-3).

    Revelation 17:10 can be understood on its own. Five had fallen, number six existed in John’s day, but the other had not yet come (i.e. the Caliphate and its end times restoration after the fatal wound is healed).

    This way, John could write during the Roman Empire that Babylon “now is not” while referring to the Roman Empire with the words “one is”.

    1. As I mention in the article, any of the first five empires are candidates. Certainly Babylon is possible. The problem is that Nebuchadnezzar ended up a believer from what we can tell and the Beast is like a Leopard with only the mouth of a Lion. Also it is the Harlot who has Babylon written on her forehead not the beast. Complex stuff.

  19. Hello Nelson, I am so glad to hear that you are out of the Hospital, and feeling better I hope. It sure sounds that way. But do take care!! I feel bad asking a question here, since there have already been several others you have responded to. Maybe for a later time, I am curious what you think about The Elect being deceived, as per Jesus warning?? I know that the Jews did submit the rulers in the past thinking that hey would escape persecution. We see all of these pictures of what Satan might look like, but I don’t think they are accurate at all. We are looking for an evil looking man and he will probably be just the opposite?? The Son of the Morning Star is used to describe Satan. I have read that he was a beautiful Angel, and musical?? Am I correct?? If I am should’t teachers be warning more about that aspect of the AntiChrist?? The deception is going to be very convincing from what I have read?? Please don’t feel you need to answer this now. Or maybe you have already written about this also?? Take care of yourself. Christine

    1. Thanks Christine.

      The choice of the endtimes is Christ or Antichrist. Everyone will have to choose. It will be more than just deception.

      1. at the first seal it will be deception. Someone probably claiming to be Jesus himself will perform signs and wonders. These will probably include rising from the dead ala Jesus and calling down fire from heaven and animating the image of the beast.

      2. at the second seal it will be fear; fear from war and terrorism. many will submit rather than face that

      3. at the third seal it will be physical want and starvation. no food without submitting

      4. at the fourth seal it will be death if you don’t commit apostasy.

      How many will be ready to face each of these and remain true.

  20. Revelation stated that 8th is the beast and since the beast is islam and islam already 1400 years then who is 8th? i have been telling this on many website using many alias that 8th is sunni.

    1. Eqypt
    2. Assyrian
    3. Babylon
    4. Persia
    5. Greece Macedonian
    6. Rome > 10 horns purpose to give power and authority to the beast (rev 17:13). Those 10 leaders committing jihad wars to spread islam (to give power and authority). they will rule for one hour that’s 41 years (one prophetic day equal to 1000 years) started 620 (islam perfected when mohamed ascend to heaven-isra mijrad and receive allah order to pray 5 times/day) until 661 when ali,hasan,husein subdue to muawiyah (founder of umayah caliphate)

    little horn: muawiyah

    after mohamed died he replaced by 4 caliphs, abu bakr, umar both father in law, utman, ali both son in law of mohamed so all blood related to mohamed. problem arise when utman replaced by ali, muawiyah who’s blood related to utman but not to ali protest said no need blood related to mohamed to rule islam anyone can as long as justified and starting rebellion (first fitna – islam internal conflict) this is the origin of sunni vs shia conflict. in 660 AD muawiyah gain control most of islamic caliphate territory and jan 661 ali died months later ali sons hasan (5th caliph) and husain(2nd imam of shiah) surrender to muawiyah new caliphate sytem (non blood/sunni) last for 1260 years from 660 (muawiyah gain control of IC) until 1920 (first meeting of league of nation, fall of ottoman)

    The beast who once, now is not and will come out of the abyss is represent king priest system. During John era this system is not exist but exist during Sumerian Akkadian empire (once was). Sargon king of Akkadia priest of Anu, later this king priest system re-appear in islam know as the caliph

  21. Joel Richardson (Return is Near) makes the case for the Antichrist being the Mahdi (12th Imam) which both Shiites and Sunnis expect to return soon to etablish Allah’s Kingdom. Makes sense to me and fits current events.

  22. I use to fully believe the revived empire of the last days would be the Ottoman empire and it may still be. But I’m also thinking it could be an empire or combination of empires from before John that is to be revived. When John received the Revelation Rome was in control and the verses say the beast that was (before John’s time) and is not (during John’s time) is the eighth and is of the seven and goes into perdition. I find this interesting because the previous 3 empires before Rome were Grecian, Medo-Persian and Babylonian. And the beast in Revelation 13 is body of a leopard (Seleucid like kingdom) because the AC is the final king of the north in Daniel 11, feet of a bear (Persia/Iran) and mouth of a lion (Babylon/Iraq) this could be where the empire is voiced from hence its where the beasts mouth is. I find that Interesting because Isaiah 14 calls AC the king of Babylon and also later in the same chapter the Assyrian, and this king of Babylon is a man that shakes kingdoms and weakens the nations and is possessed by Lucifer after he is cast out of heaven. I’m starting to believe because of all this and more that when the beast first rises it will look kinda like the Seleucid empire (leopard), it will militarily destroy with its feet of a bear (Iran) (the beast stamps the residue with its feet) and will be voiced from its headquarters in Babylon (Iraq). This final beast (final king of the north) will war against the king of the south (Egypt and allies) and defeat them then at that time the beast will be the 10 Islamic nations that surround Israel and at that time will stop waring with each other and come against Israel. This point in time is when the Abomination happens and the final 3.5 yrs begins. Don’t be surprised if the wars of the kings of the north and south are Sunni vs Shiite. Remember Daniel said the kingdom would be a divided kingdom that doesn’t adhere one to another.

  23. Another additional comment here, regarding the demon-beast who perhaps possessed Antiochus IV as you suggest in your article. Those like me who study the more obscure things of the Bible, which seems to indicate the likelihood of demons being disembodied Nephilim and this may apply to the term “Beast” here in Revelation. Could it be that the demon-beast is actually a disembodied nephilim inhabiting the body of the Antichrist? It is a possibility as this link indicates: http://www.gotquestions.org/Nephilim-demons.html

  24. Wow! Fascinating to contemplate all in the article, Nelson! Indeed, never thought that the AC would claim to be God as that would be a non-starter for all three major religions. But Mohammed, now, that is one I never considered before, but it certainly would be a likely candidate. Also that Leviathan is speaking of the spiritual demon of the Abyss and perhaps previously possessed Antiochus IV and will possess the future AC is also something to chew on for relevance.

    How did you get this all from being hospitalized? Awww…I’m only joshing you! Truly, glad your on the road to mending and being back to your fighting Nelson self!

    Blessings!

      1. But if he’s a Islamist allah wouldnt be a foreign God to Him would he! ? I’m thinking if he is not Islamist then Allah could be the foreign but if he is Islamist then the God couldnt be Allah . The phrase in Daniel that says he shall not regard the God of his father’s seems to lend credence to that point I make! How do you balance those?

        1. Good questions all, Mike, Re-read this article that discusses a lot of it. the word Elohe is used for God of his fathers (Ishmael and Esau) so that is YHWH. All other references to “gods” in this passage are Elowah (gods of other nations). He honors a god of strongholds (allah). Now to your specific question about “foreign god,” is this foreign from Israel’s perspective or the AC’s? I have always thought it meant from Israel’s thus allah would fit. But I’m not a Hebrew scholar so I’m not sure. If I’m able to find out I’ll let you know.

      2. Reading through everything I didn’t see any mentions of Allah not having any sons, but has 3 daughters named… Al-Uzza, Al-Lat and Manat (sometimes Manat and Al-Lat are considered daughters of Al-Uzza.) and the three of them were very popular goddesses in Mecca at the time of Muhammad. The trio were worshiped as uncut aniconic stones.

        Al-Uzza the virgin warrior and youngest in the triad of goddesses was one of the most venerated Arab Deities, and the goddess of the morning and evening star, the planet Venus and was a blood-thirsty goddess which requires sacrifices; both animal and human.

        The Crescent Moon is on top of every Mosque.
        ______________________________________

        Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17:5 to me is a spiritual Babylon. The great city sits on Seven Mountains and at the top of the Dome of the Rock is the Crescent Moon.

        With all the raping of animals, your boys, young girls, women and sex slavery Islam does. When God two witnesses are killed we read in…

        Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

        Babylon is the only biblical world kingdom mention in Revelation. But, is Babylon being used as a symbol of evil and defiance? God’s Word will interpret itself.

        Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

          1. There’s a bit of a difference between Diana of the Ephesians in Acts 19:28, 34-35 and Islam’s Al-Uzza…

            Both worship a meteorite as god with three daughters. Islam claims allah has no sons. Diana had a twin bother named Apollo with Jupiter being their dad.

  25. Nelson, I just watched a video that claims communism will be the beast that takes over and is already doing so in America, and the occult will be the one world religion. They said moslems are just a pawn in their hand to eliminate the population and not the final beast. Could you comment your thought on that

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