FOUR HORSEMEN, JERICHO: ONE CONSISTENT PICTURE of the TRIBULATION

By: Nelson Walters

Author: Are We Ready For Jesus? How to Prepare for His Return (May 2015)

THE FOUR HORSEMEN

The four horsemen of the Apocalypse (Rev. 6:1-8) are probably one of the most enigmatic prophecies in all of scripture.  Everyone seems to have ventured a guess as to their identity.  In this post I am going to propose a theory that is consistent with the Old and New Testaments and integrates the Jewish Feasts.

The Horsemen have multiple interpretations.  They have even appeared in popular culture.  A famous Notre Dame backfield was named the Four Horsemen.   Irenaeus, of the 2nd century interpreted the first horseman as Jesus, with his white horse representing the gospel.  The Jewish Encyclopedia calls the first horseman Pestilence or disease.  Billy Graham interprets the first horseman as the Antichrist and his white horse is a cheap imitation of the white horse Chirst will eventually ride back to conquer the Earth (Rev. 19).  My good friend Mark Davidson interprets the first horseman to be Saddam Hussein as an integral part of his Signpost interpretation. And these are just four views of the very first horse!! There are literally hundreds of different views on the horsemen.

I believe  everyone has seen the Four Horseman based on their own particular reference point.  I am no different.  I have held at least three views of who the horsemen are.

  • First I believed they were general conditions that would exist before the Great Tribulation:  Deception, War, Famine and Death.
  • Next, based on Mark Davidson’s signposts, I integrated these general conditions with his Four Signposts, and saw the horsemen as riding before the 70th week of Daniel.  I wrote about this view on this website less than a year ago.  Some long time readers may remember that.
  • After much meditation and prayer, I have changed my mind yet again.  I do not claim this new view is the only possible interpretation, but given my current knowledge of scripture, it seems the best “fit” with the entire canon.

Might I assume yet a fourth position or return to my earlier theories?  Possibly.  Truth is all that matters.  If another viewpoint better matches scripture, then that is the view I will take.

Here are the events I think might fulfill the Four Horsemen Prophecy:

Horseman Seal Events
White First Antichrist signs Deceptive Peace Treaty,  False Prophet Arises
Red Second Antichrist begins “Tribulation Wars” detailed in Daniel 11:23-30
Black Third Economic Collapse and Famine brought on by Antichrist’s control of oil, leads to institution of the Mark of the Beast
Green/Pale Fourth Great Tribulation persecutions begin

Let’s now take a look at the Biblical and logical support for these ideas.

THE SEVEN SEALS

One aspect of the Four Horsemen that many interpreters seem to miss is that they are the first four in a series of seven seals that Christ opens on a heavenly scroll in Revelation 5 and 6.  Any view of the Horsemen must include their position and function within these seven seals.

In order to understand the seals, one must identify the scroll written on two sides that is opened by Christ.  Some view this as the Book of Daniel (the only Book of the Bible that is sealed.)  The weakness in this theory is the scroll of Daniel was only written on one side and Daniel 12 describes its unsealing as people going “to and fro” (throughout scripture) and knowledge (of scripture) increasing.  Also, why would the Father hand the Son the book of Daniel as pictured in Revelation 5?  This theory has problems.

Others view the scroll as the Wrath of God.  It is entirely true that after the seventh seal is broken, the Wrath of God commences, so this is a potentially  legitimate view.  The question, however, is why is the scroll written on two sides if it is only the Wrath of God?  Writing on two sides might imply blessing and curses.  If it is Wrath, it is only curses.  Also John weeps when at first it appears no one is worthy to open the scroll.  If it truly is a scroll of curses (the Wrath of God) why would John weep?

The view that I like the best is that the scroll is the Title Deed to the Earth.  Adam lost his dominion over the Earth when he sinned.  Satan then became the temporary archon or ruler of the Earth.  We learned about this in the post DID SATAN FEAR THIS PROPHECY AND TRY TO KEEP IT SECRETThe Father commissioned the scroll to be written as soon as Adam lost dominion.  Ancient title deeds were written in exactly this way.  One side of the scroll detailed the current ownership and the other side detailed what was necessary for the property to revert back to its original owner.  This mirrored the year of Jubilee where property reverted to its original owners.  These scrolls were then sealed with seven seals.  Jeremiah the prophet was instructed to buy land right before the Babylonian invasion as a sign that Israel would return to the land.  You can read about this title deed in Jer. 32.

The Lamb who was slain, the second Adam, is the only one worthy to open the scroll, and His blood was the price.  The opening of the book is also pictured in Daniel 7:9-10 at the heavenly court scene. John weeps when initially, no one can open the scroll (Rev. 5:4) because he knows what the scroll truly is.  If it were God’s Wrath or the Book of Daniel he would not weep.  This scroll is our inheritance. That is why he initially weeps.  Of course, the Lamb is worthy to open the scroll exactly because he is the Lamb who was slain.  He paid the price for the Earth.  He undid the sin that caused the title to fall to Satan. As each of the first four seals break, Satan reacts to his coming loss of the Earth.  The pain associated with these seals are the birth pangs Jesus refers to in Matthew 24.  Sin is more horrible than we can imagine and removing it from the Earth will be more painful and difficult than we imagine.  It required the death of our Lord and the it will require the events of Revelation.

IMO, only a proper view of the identity of the scroll with the 7 seals can provide us with a clear understanding of what the seals represent.  The first four seals are all horsemen.  The other three are not.  The first four have a unified purpose.  They are Satan’s plan to retain control of the Earth and thwart God’s redemption of it.

JERICHO

Let’s now turn our attention to the timing of the seals detailed in this Old Testament story.

Anytime I see a Bible Story that seems to include “crazy” instructions from God, I look for a prophetic meaning to the story.  This is true of Noah and the Ark.  He received “crazy” instructions to build an Ark when it had never rained. In Matthew 24, Jesus clearly showed us that “as in the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.”  So, the real life events of Noah’s life reflect what will be real life end time events.

The same is true of the Conquest of Jericho by Joshua.  God instructs them to do some “crazy” things.  This story contains 7 trumpets, a harlot, a scarlet cord, falling walls, and a conquering hero named Yeshua.  It is absolutely a picture of events in Revelation.  I note with interest that the battle is seven days long while the 70th week of Daniel is seven years long.  Are each of these days symbolic of a year of the Tribulation period?  I also note with interest that once a day during the first six days of the battle, the children of Israel circle the city.  On the seventh day they circle the city seven times and blow seven trumpets.  Are the first six days  encircling the city symbolic of the first six seals?  Are the 7 trips around the city and the seven trumpets symbolic of the seventh seal and the 7 trumpets that follow?  I think they are!  If this is true, we gain amazing insight about the seals.  This would mean that a seal will be broken during each calendar year of the 70th week of Daniel.  Let’s see how a-seal-a-year might look imposed on this 70th week.

Seal/Year Rev. 6 Matt. 24 Description Events
First vv. 1-2 vv. 4-5 White Horse, rider with a bow, deception by those claiming to be Christ Antichrist negotiates False Peace Treaty (Dan. 11:23, Dan. 9:27) and False Prophet arises
Second vv. 3-4 vv. 6-7a Red Horse, war and rumors of wars Antichrist fights wars detailed in Dan. 11:24-30
Third vv. 5-6 v. 7b Black Horse, economic collapse and famine  Economic collapse gives Antichrist opportunity to institute Mark of the Beast
Fourth vv. 7-8 v. 9-14 Green Horse, death and the Great Tribulation Great Tribulation in Daniel 11: 33-35
Fifth vv. 9-11 v. 21 Great Tribulation persecutions continue Daniel 12: 1
Sixth vv. 12-17 v. 29-31 Celestial Earthly Disturbance events followed by the Rapture of the Church Daniel 12:2
Seventh 7:1-8 The sealing of the Jews prior to the Wrath of God beginning

Wow! This perfect match of the seals with the Jericho story, the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24) and Daniel’s Great Vision Prophecy (Dan 11-12) is striking.   Let’s take a closer look at what these 7 seals might look like

FIRST SEAL/WHITE HORSE (Rev. 6:1-2)

A white horse is symbolic of peace or purity.  We know from Daniel 11: 23 and 9:27 that the Antichrist will sign a peace treaty to initiate the 70th week of Daniel.  We also know Muslims fully expect their messiah, their Mahdi, to ride a white horse.  (See THE ANTICHRIST BEFORE THE GREAT TRIBULATION for more information).  A bow without arrows is carried by the rider symbolic of peace and possibly nuclear disarmament.  The parallel verse in Matthew 24 tells us to be observant to not be deceived as many will claim to be Jesus by name. Muslims fully expect Isa (their false Jesus) to accompany the Mahdi.  This verse tells me we should look for the rise of Isa during the first year of the Tribulation as well.   

SECOND SEAL/RED HORSE (Rev. 6: 3-4)

In THE ANTICHRIST BEFORE THE GREAT TRIBULATION we discussed how the Antichrist will attempt to use the notoriety he gains from signing his False Peace Treaty with Israel into being named Caliph or Mahdi.  When he sees that his efforts have failed, he will try to take those titles by force.  Daniel 11:23-30 reference these Tribulation wars.  Please see the above post to gain insight into why these wars in particular might take peace of mind from the Earth.  Is the “great sword” mentioned here the use of nuclear weapons.  Is this also the seizmos Jesus references in Matthew 24:7? Might the Antichrist also use biologic weapons and are these the pestilences listed in Luke 21?  Again, see the prior post for more detailed information, but all the clues certainly indicate these things might happen.

THIRD SEAL/BLACK HORSE (Rev. 6: 5-6)

Revelation mentions tremendous price inflation and Matthew 24 mentions famine in many places.  We know from the Jericho model of one seal/year that this will likely occur in the third year of the Tribulation period.  A little logic needs to be applied to understand why this is the perfect timing for a world economic collapse.  It is likely that the Antichrist will capture 1/4 of the world’s oil in his warfare.  It is also possible he will use biologic and/or nuclear weapons on the “strongest fortresses” (the western nations.)  It is not hard to imagine the combination of these events leading to total economic collapse.

After a collapse and famine, the world will be hungry and poor.  It will be the perfect time to institute a program like the Mark of the Beast.  We know from Rev. 13 that the those who do not take the Mark of the Beast will not be able to buy or sell.  Doesn’t it make perfect logical sense for a program like the Mark to come on the heels of economic collapse?

FOURTH SEAL/GREEN (PALE) HORSE (Rev. 6: 7-8)

In the fourth year of the 70th week of Daniel, at the midpoint of 3 1/2 years, we know the Antichrist will conquer Jerusalem, declare himself god, and will begin to persecute Jews and Christians in the Great Tribulation.  (see MIDPOINT OF THE TRIBULATION: EARTH’S PERSPECTIVE)This persecution is the death horse.  Again, look at how perfect the timing and fulfillment of this horse is!  In the exact correct year (the fourth year), the most intense persecution the world has ever known begins.  The fourth seal also gives us insight into the methods the Antichrist will use to persecute the Jews and the Church.

  • Sword: beheadings
  • Famine: starvation of those not taking the Mark
  • Pestilence: perhaps from biologic/chemical weapons?
  • Wild beasts: might feeding Christians to the lions return?

THE FIFTH SEAL/MARTYRS (Rev. 6: 9-11)

Many commentators (me included) once believed or still believe that this seal is broken at the midpoint of the Tribulation.  Logically, this isn’t correct.  If multiple martyrs are beneath the altar, isn’t it logical that the Great Tribulation is already well underway?  Here the Jericho model of one seal/year makes perfect, logical sense placing this seal in the first year.  This somewhat somber passage indicates that there is a set number of those who will be martyred in the Great Tribulation.

THE SIXTH SEAL/CELESTIAL EARTHLY DISTURBANCE (Rev. 6: 12-17)

This passage references the same event found in Isa. 13:6-13, Joel 2:30-31, Matthew 24:29-31 and Luke 21:25-26.  This is the event that these passages tell us comes before the Wrath of God.  Matthew and Luke tell us that the Rapture occurs after this event as well.  In the Revelation passage we see Jesus’ presence (Parousia) occurs after this event as well.  This is the Pre-Wrath rapture of the Church which the Bible clearly teaches.  For the best book on why this is so, see Alan Kurchner’s Antichrist Before the Day of the Lord

Now the Jericho model implies the rapture will occur in the sixth year of the Tribulation Period.  Is there any evidence this is true?  Yes!  Shockingly in Leonard and Zoller’s The Last Shofar! they present that the rapture will occur on Yom Teruah (the Day and Hour No Man Knows) at the last moment of the sixth year of the Tribulation Period.

This post is too short to examine either of these teachings in detail so I highly recommend both books for your study.  Both of these teachings are consistent with the Jericho model.

THE SEALING OF THE JEWISH ELECT (Rev. 7:1-8)

The next event that occurs is the sealing of the Jewish Elect to protect them during the coming Wrath of God.  The Church is not pictured because they were just translated (raptured) off the Earth.  If Leonard and Zoller are correct and the rapture occurs on Yom Teruah at the last moment of year six of the Tribulation Period, then the sealing of the Jewish elect will most likely occur during the Days of Awe (the ten days between Yom Teruah and Yom Kippur).  These are the days where Jewish Tradition states the fate of persons are sealed for the upcoming year.  Interesting coincidence.

Again, the timing of this Jericho model we are following is uncanny.

THE SEVENTH SEAL/THE DAY OF THE LORD (Rev. 8:1-6)

The remainder of Revelation Seven shows the Raptured Church before the throne in heaven.  This further strengthens the case for the rapture occurring at the sixth seal.

Chapter Eight of Revelation then shows the seventh seal being opened and the Wrath of God (7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls) about to be poured out on the Earth.  The breaking of the seventh seal opens the Title Dead to the Earth and Jesus is now going to respond to Satan’s attempt to hold on to his dominion.  (Satan’s attempt was the four horsemen).

When might this seal be broken?  We know from the Jericho model that it will be in the 7th year of the Tribulation Period.  Immediately after the Days of Awe are completed comes Yom Kippur.  I propose this is the date of the seventh seal.  We know that the Wrath of God lasts a year (Isa. 34:8).  It is then likely that Yom Kippur of the following year will mark the physical return of Christ to the Earth!  The Second Coming.

Again, the timing of Rev. 6-8 is exactly mirrored in the Jericho model.

ZECHARIAH’S HORSES (Zech. 6: 1-8)

The same four colored horses first appear in scripture in Zechariah.  If this theory is correct, this original mention of the horses should be consistent with Revelation’s passage.

Zechariah wrote this from Susa, Persia and saw the horses coming out between two mountains of brass.  The directions and timing are critical.  We know from Nebuchadnezzar’s statue that the brass kingdom was Greece.  The two mountains (kingdoms) of brass almost assuredly are the King of the North (Assyria) and the King of the South (Egypt.)  When do the King of North and South appear on the end times’ scene?  Right before the Tribulation of course! This is consistent with Revelation.  We also see the Black and White horse both go north to Assyria.  This is entirely consistent with Revelation as well.  The death horse, the dappled horse goes south.  This could be south to Egypt where great bloodshed will happen or it more likely is south to Mecca, the home of the Beast religion, Islam.  Islam will be the vehicle for the persecution of the Great Tribulation.  We don’t see the red horse going in a direction because the struggle between the King of the North and South is between them!  Again this is amazingly consistent with Revelation.

CAN MULTIPLE VIEWS BE CORRECT?

When I saw this amazing parallelism between OT and NT scriptures, I knew it had to be very close to a correct interpretation.  So the question entered my mind, how could I have been so wrong about my earlier views of the Four Horsemen?  The idea then entered my mind that maybe I wasn’t wrong after all.

Scripture is full of near/far fulfillments.  Could an early foreshadowing fulfillment of the Four Horsemen occur during the Signposts and a final fulfillment during the Tribulation?  It absolutely could.  And this is what I suspect will happen.

If you believe the four horsemen ride during the Signposts or during the Tribulation, it doesn’t have to be either or.  It can be both.  Only time of course will tell.

 

 

34 thoughts on “FOUR HORSEMEN, JERICHO: ONE CONSISTENT PICTURE of the TRIBULATION”

  1. Sir, I agree on the sequence of the horsemen except the rapture event. I believe that Jesus will come literally on earth then the caught up in the air happen at the last trumpet (7th trumpet). The souls John saw in heaven at the 6th seal are physically dead believers (due to persecutions) in Christ, meaning there are still believers alive on earth during that time. The gathering of the wicked first then the gathering of the righteous must also happen. The ressurection will happen at THE LAST DAY. And scriptures told us that those who are alive, left and remain from the great tribulation will be caught up together with the dead saints. They will be ressurected first. How is the church protected from the wrath of God? That is how God will show miracles in ways we don’t know yet but this reminds me of how God protected Israel in Egypt in those times He sends plagues in Egypt. He provided, protects and deliver them. It will be the same with His church. Amen.

    1. Anna, this is a commonly heald theory of when the Resurrection and Rapture happens. In fact it is the oldest theory of timing dating back to the early Fathers of the Church. I usually don’t discuss the difference between post trib and pre wrath here, because the differences are somewhat insignificant. Only a few survivors of the Great Tribulation will notice. However, it will be important to those survivors! This site contains numerous articles with additional proofs about an end of the sixth year Rapture and a final physical return of Christ onto the earth a year later. While you ponder these things consider these questions:

      1. Can the “last day” be considerably longer than a single physical day? Can it be a 1000 years long? (a day is like a 1000 years)
      2. Can the Day of the Lord’s Wrath acutally be a year long (Isa. 34:8)?
      3. Notice in Rev. 19 that the Wedding Supper of the Lamb takes place in heaven BEFORE Christ and his armies return to the earth. This is a super key point.
      4. Notice in Rev. 5, when the seals are opened, there are no saints before the throne. In Rev. 7 they appear. Why the difference? Saints have been dying throughout history. At the fifth seal the martyrs are under the altar not in front of the throne, but yet, in the Vision in Rev. 7 they are before the throne. Post Trib and Pre-Trib theory must answer why. My answer is these in Rev. 7 are the newly raptured/resurrected saints.
      5. In terms of the parable of the Tares and Wheat, look for a future article on what it means to gather the wicked first.

  2. Nelson,

    Just wanted to commend you on your approach to these post. I believe that we Christians need to talk about these eschatological issues more than we do. If we approached one another with the same openness and grace that you post with, we would probably get further in our discussions before we started thinking our brothers and sisters were loony for thinking about the “end times”. Thanks again! I enjoy your perspectives!

  3. This theory brings a lot of missing puzzles into perspective. Of course we seem to forget that Jesus’s Hebrew name is Joshua. Joshua’s conquest of Jericho
    Is the perfect shadow of how Jesus will conquer the AC.
    Joseph is the suffering messiah, and David is the ruling messiah and sandwiched in between is Joshua the conquering messiah.
    A hint for your next book.

  4. It is my blessing knowing this brother’s passion and love for HIS WORD.
    I thank you sincerely, for this fellowship of digging deeper into our passion.
    And thus so, as we share, we will also be provocative.
    Lets open our hearts to HIS WORD putting aside our own prejudices if any.

    Shalom again !!!

  5. When reading Psalm 11, read the whole Psalm in entirety and not just focus on “BOW”. There’s also “CROWN”, taking refuge. God in HIS holy temple etc…. A white horse is a white one and if Rev 19 says the rider is HE … then let Scriptures be consistent. My opinion is that we don’t need to 2nd guess, but let scripture explain scriptures.

    Why can’t the rider be THE LORD? He behold …. 1. the wicked, 2. Read also verse 3-6. then see the countenance of the LORD upon Mt. Zion in HIS Holy Temple…. His name is Emmanuel, Wonderful, Counselor etc…. and also Exo 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

    Finally, Consistency of biblical inspired utterance through the anointed prophets, the likes of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Zechariah and many others must be observed when reading such alike passages; the yea, yea and nay, nay of the Lord has never, and will never be inconsistence but forever truthful and invariably, the coloured horses iconic symbolism and their parablic meaning thus, MUST BE maintain, true to the letter beyond any shadow of doubts. A white/red/black/pale horse is always the same; and can never, NEVER be frickle in Scriptures and as always is explain clearly, only if we have ears to hear and eyes to see.

    Here’s another example: The consistency of names called for the Lord is never the honour of Satan, Lucifer, the serpent, the Devil. Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. Nowhere in scriptures do we get such honour extend which is accorded for Jesus names including the lesser use such as: man of war conquering, Death and Hell.

    SHALOM!!!

    1. ifttas: thanks for reading and your good questions. I can’t respond to this and do it justice in a single comments entry. I think it deserves its own post. Let me answer this for you in briefly here, and I promise, I will do an entire post on your questions in the near (weeks) future. As I read it your main question is why can’t the rider of the white horse in rev. 6:1-2 be Yeshua and why isn’t Psalm 11 all about the Lord. Let me say that the meaning of this post was to show that the entire 7 year Tribulation is pictured, year by year, in this series of Psalms. I didn’t do an in depth analysis of any one. (like Psalm 11). I will do that for you and show in extensive depth why I think it’s the Tribulation year one in that post. And YES, the Lord is pictured in his throne room in that picture just as he is in Rev. 4 and 5 and in this Psalm. I am sorry this post is my “Nelson short hand” version of this Psalm, and it wasn’t completely clear. I will do it justice in a coming post.

      In regard to the rider of the white horse, Jesus does ride a white horse in Rev. 19 but that is at the end NOT the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel. Plus Jesus is the one opening the seals, does it make sense the first seal he’d open is about himself?? No this is the one Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24:4-5, the false messiah coming in his name, trying to fool the world that he is the historic Jesus. The white horse he rides is a counterfeit of the real one just like this character will be a counterfeit Jesus. I will explain all this in detail in my future post. SHALOM brother.

  6. I am way off here, and as someone said to me, I have had to “hit the reset button” the past two days. I am re-evaluating Daniel outside the signpost theory, specifically Daniel 7 and 8 and seeing what the scripture is telling me (with the help of your writings and others too). You’re articles have been such an instrument from the Lord in my studies. Thank you for challenging and steering my thoughts towards truth. It is all starting to come together and the scripture is “clicking”. Excited for the upcoming posts.

  7. This makes a lot of sense, but then what do we do with the signpost interpretation as most of it is based in conjunction with the horseman theory? I believe the other half of the signpost theory is still sound, I still think scripture says signpost 2-4 will play out at Mark has written.

    Does this mean the signpost theory is still valid and misses the mark when it comes to the horseman but otherwise good? Or could mean what you said above, there will be a near and far fulfillment. I almost have to believe the latter because it seems so clear in scripture, but so does the interpretation to Zech.

    When studying and learning new things I always have to ask myself does this change major events of what I thought was to happen next, and I don’t think this does, unless, I am missing something. We are still looking for Iran to invade, and then a Turkey led confederacy to counter, right? It just means that signpost 2-3 happen before the first horseman rides (the fourth signpost would be the first horseman?), correct?

    1. Paige, these are very good questions. Within the next month you will see me post two additional posts about pictures of the Seven Years of the Tribulation in scripture. Another reader (and blogger) Josh Word brought these to my attention, one in a series of eight consecutive Psalms and an additional one in Revelation. In combination with what I have already posted, there can be very little doubt that the horsemen ride during the tribulation.

      That being said, Daniel 8 is pretty clear that it is yet future and will be fulfilled by Iran invading the middle east and Turkey (Yavan) or a Turkey/Sunni alliance counterattacking. This is very, very solid. The foreshadow of horsemen riding during these events adds only a very little to the Signpost message. Iran’s invasion is of course a war and it will be very unsettling. Turkey’s counterattack may result in famine (or might not, Daniel 8 is not clear on that.) In a nutshell that is all the horsemen add to the message. The heart of the Signposts is Daniel 8

      Now the AC arises prior to the beginning of the Tribulation, but not by much. Daniel’s Great Vision Prophecy in Chapter 11 made things much more clear for him and for us. In the post ANTICHRIST BEFORE THE GREAT TRIBULATION we discuss the activities of the AC before he invades Jerusalem and sits in the Temple. Give it a read. I assume the Fourth Signpost occurs at the very beginning of these events. Mark Davidson discusses the AC conquering the other 3 nations of the coming Turkish Empire and this appear to occur during the Tribulation. Again check out the post I referenced.

      Just because the horsemen ride during the Tribulation doesn’t mean that the Signposts are invalid. Quite the opposite. I still see this as a very solid interpretation, just with some tweaks as more of scripture opens up to us.

      1. I see where I made my mistake, I was thinking for some reason that the 4th signpost was the “peace treaty” and it actually is the abomination of desolation (big difference).

        I thought I had read through the Antichrist Before.. article but I had not, so thanks for pointing me to that! Sometimes I lose track of all the things I have and have not read, and that was an important one.

        After reading I believe I must also change theories on the horseman, but as you said (I think), the signposts still are valid just not the horseman part. I had originally thought the horseman to ride during tribulation until I read Daniel Revisited. Although I see now why that does not work, I missed some scripture (Daniel 11 particularly) the first time around that support them riding in trib, with now having the additional references it makes complete sense.

        I am interested to see what you post about the 7 years of trib in reference to the 8 psalms. I don’t think I have seen that before. I don’t know if the list I gave above makes you jump the gun on anything you plan to discuss in those articles, but if so and anything I said requires great explanation, just let me know and I will wait for you to write about it!

        1. Mark Davidson teaches the Fourth Signpost is the rise of the Antichrist in his home country prior to the Peace Treaty and long before the Abomination. I agree with him. The Abomination is the point where we can truly identify him as AC, when he sits in the temple and declares himself to be God. Prior to the AC sitting in the temple of God we won’t know for sure it’s the AC. I am not a big fan of the Fourth Signpost for this reason. I expect the church to be fooled by a long line of wannabe Antichrists. We already have a bunch, and every day a new candidate surfaces. Wait until the leader Iran comes forward, everyone will jump on his bandwagon, then the leader of Turkey. It will be very confusing to the Church.

  8. Could it be, that there is a difference between the two flocks, Jesus
    was speaking about in John 10:16 – a rapture for those who will reign together with our Lord Jesus and the “great multitude” out of every
    nation .. according to Rev. 7:9?

    1. Thanks Sue for commenting. Jesus was talking to Jews in this conversation and my interpretation, along with most other Bible scholars, is that he was talking about Jews and Gentiles as being the two folds or sheep pens.

  9. Nelson, you raise many interesting points and I commend you on your analysis. I also note you have already read many good books on the subject (my favorite among the titles you mentioned would be Kurschner’s “Antichrist: Before the Day of the Lord” – I think you would appreciate my own recent book – Antichrist 2016-2019 – and the evidence that leads me to my timeline of events. Please check my blog and feel free to contact me, comment on my posts, or submit guest posts. – David Montaigne

  10. What has been is what will be; what has been done is what will be done. And there is nothing new under the sun. Ec 9. I think you have been given guidance by the Spirit. All prophecies yet to be fulfilled will have been done in a similar manner in the past.

    1. Jesse, very good observations. Zech. 6 is discussed at the end of the post. Check that section out. Jer. 15 is quoted in Revelation. The “near” fulfillment back in OT days was in response to Manasseh’s defilement of the temple. IMO, I think it refers to the four “deaths” we see in the discussion of the fourth, green (chlorus in the Greek)horse. Could this also be the four horsemen? Maybe, but I lean toward the Great Tribulation only.

  11. Very interesting indeed…vie heard this before that the Jewish feasts. Had significant bearing on endtime events. Im a post tribulation believer I have flirted with the prewrath position but there are some verses that seem to suggest otherwise. I agree with you that the believer is kept safe from the wrath of God and my view of the wrath of God is that its also called the wrath of the lamb. We’ve heard it said when the Lord came the first time he came he came as a lamb but on the 2nd coming he shall be as a ferocious lion! Now as to the sealing of the Jews , I believe they are sealed at the 2nd coming at the same time the church is raptured . I believecalso this to be the resurrection of the believer from the dead that includes the rapture of the church . so as far as the wrath talked about in scripture i believe it is at the the final day of the tribulation because it says in 1 thes. 5 that. When the Lord shall come to be glorified in his saints in flaming fire dealing out retribution to those who have not obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ .this is the wrath of God also shown in revelations 14 and notice the sealed Jews with him . also a picture of rev. 19 believers already raptured .. I could list many other scriptures which reference the day of the Lord … Also it says in zachariah 12 the day the Lord returns he also pours out grace on the Jews =sealing lets not forget that in Matt 24 it says like in the day ofnaoah like in the day of lot so shall the coming of the sin of man be on the self same day lot left Sodom fire and brimstone were pour out on those who dwell on the face of the earth. I see from Daniel blessed are those who waited 1335 days to be the sealed Jews they are also pictured in rev. 7 and rev. 14 Jesus told the church I shall be with you to the end of the age , he also told Mary and Martha the resurrection shall be at the last day .. So these are some of the reasons a prewrath rapture doesn’t fit with me but IM open ill keep reading .. You’ve shed light on alto of things fir me thanks

    1. Michael, there is very little difference between a post-trib and pre-wrath position. It will only matter to those “who remain,” who survive the persecutions. However it will matter a great deal to those folks that “those days will be shortened” (Matt. 24:22)

      One of the misconceptions that I had initially was thinking the Day of the Lord was a single day. My current understanding is that it is much longer, probably a thousand years (a day is like unto a thousand years.) To me it is the Millennial Kingdom which starts with Jesus’ return to the Earth at the end of the sixth year of the Tribulation. The Day of the Lord then is Jesus’ Millennial reign which includes the seventh year of the Tribulation. Jesus is already present at that point, so the Day (1000 years) of the Lord has begun. See the post IS THE CREATION NARRATIVE A PROPHECY on this site. It details the seven 1000 year “days” after creation. The Wrath of God is a one year period (Isa. 34:8) when Christ begins to win back his rightful inheritance by pouring out his Wrath on the Earth. When he physically steps foot on the Earth with his saints (in resurrection bodies), it is at Daniel’s 1260th day (IMHO, I have a future post in the works on Daniel’s numbers) 1335 is the First Hanukkah after the AC is defeated and the Temple cleansed. It’s the Feast of Re-dedication after all.

      However, these are my opinions. If it were crystal clear everyone would agree! To me the key to understanding is knowing Day of the Lord isn’t a single physical day. Again, as with Eben, I recommend you get the books mentioned in the article. Pray, and then make up your own mind with the assist of the Holy Spirit. Perhaps you will receive new revelations that will change all our minds.

    2. My Great Brother in Christ.
      Can you first and foremost CLARIFY THE RAPTURE THEORY? WHERE YOU HEARD IT? HOW IT CAME TO BE? AND HOW EXACTLY DID JESUS TELL US ABOUT IT IN HIS TEACHINGS OR HIS WORD?

      1. Shaun, I recommend the book Antichrist Before The Day of the Lord by Alan Kurschner. It is the very best rapture book on the market. It should answer 95% of your questions. Your question here requires “book length” treatment. Alan is debating Thomas Ice (the world’s leading Pre-Trib rapture teacher) this summer in Dallas. Listening to this debate should be an awesome learning experience for the church. Hopefully it will be available.

        I also humbly recommend my new book Are We Ready For Jesus? How to Prepare for His Return due in May. Although discussion of the rapture is only half a chapter, it presents the reason WHY what we think about the rapture is critically important and why it is not a simple case of who is right and who is wrong. It also presents biblical evidence that at least IMO is pretty overwhelming for a Pre-Wrath Rapture, some of which I think is unique to this new book.

        1. Hi Nelson

          I respect your recommendations, although i dont read many books written by authors who base their theories and facts which stems from unbiblical origins and principles… I encourage you my brother, seek truth in YHWH’s Word and NOT in books, tabloids, articles, or men. GOD IS TRUTH!!!

          1. Shaun, I can assure you that I would never recommend a book that isn’t 100% scripturally based. You may disagree with Alan’s interpretation, but it’s based 100% on scripture.

            You are correct that YHWH is truth, his Word is truth. Men distort the truth. I also take the position, however, that the very biblical principle of humility demands we consider what the Holy Spirit reveals to others not just rely on our own study. Just as the Bereans in the Book of Acts did not accept Paul’s words but checked scripture to see if it was true, I try to evaluate ideas of what men think scripture means against the whole canon of scripture. Interestingly the Bereans found Paul’s words to be true. So I listen to sermons and read books and evaluate from there. I think the Berean model of bible study demands we be open to listening to other ideas and then in personal study to evaluate those ideas.

            I have already done that with brother Alan’s book, and because I have written my own book, I’ve done exhaustive personal bible study on this topic, as you will learn if you read my book.

            Blessings,
            Nelson

          2. My Brother in Christ

            I respect your stance and i would wish the same on mine. I’m not here to debate but rather to question why we always believe what anyone tells us?
            Like yourself, i observe take it and what does not agree with me i spew out.
            I personally do NOT believe in a rapture. I am a firm believer that we as Christians will go through the great tribulation or how else will we be found worthy of the reward of eternal life that Jesus offers us?
            Remember …ONLY THOSE WHO ENDURE TILL THE END WILL BE SAVED.
            I RESPECT EVERY ONE WHO BELIEVE DIFFERENTLY, AND WONT TRY TO CONVINCE THEM OTHERWISE, AS PROVERBS TELLS US.
            I TRUST THAT GOD WILL OPEN THE EYES OF US AS HIS CHILDREN.

            KEEP ON SERVING AND WORSHIP GOD AND CONTINUE TO SPREAD THE GOSPEL OF SALVATION AND LIFE TO THOSE WHO NEEDS CHRIST.

            KEEP ON BEING A BLESSING MY BROTHER

          3. I also believe that he who endures to the end will be saved and that all will experience the full Great Tribulation. Our views may be more similar than you think brother Shaun. The rapture I speak of happens “after the tribulation of those days” when the angels gather us together and we are “caught up together” in the air with Christ. I encourage you to consider reading Alan’s or my book and react after considering what brothers have to say. It may surprise you. But either way, we are brothers in Christ.

      2. Hello Brother in Christ… The rapture as you probably have heard is not mentioned in the bible bible name… In 1 thess. 4 and in 1 cor. 15 it is described as being caught up. Many times those who teach a position other than pretrib. Rapture they are accused of not believing in the rapture which is not true , most do but just disagree on the timing of the rapture…being caught up to meet the Lord in the air .. I. Personally believe the church will endure the great tribulation .. My first understanding of the rapture came from from reading the bible. I listened to the words of Jesus ..as he said “let no one deceive you , if they say that I am in the inner courts or i am out in the desert or if your told any other place do not believe them , for my coming shall be as lightening going east to west , every eye shall see me … I read of what is termed the 2nd coming of Christ but as time went by i was told that thered”d be a pretrib. Rapture but it never made sense and I always go back to the words of Jesus it says no where in the gospels about this pretrib. Rapture.. I would think the Lord wouldn’t leave that detail out but he just told them watch and pray and to watch for the times but the pretrib. Rapture says it can happen at any point in time and scripture says otherwise ..I have a complete teaching if your interested .. All these others are brothers and its up to God to convince them not i Lord bless

  12. Sir, I am Confused! You said that the Rapture will happen at the 6th seal and Christ will physically return after 1 year(7th Seal). My question is this, How can the church be raptured without the physical descent of Lord ? . 1 Thessalonians 4:16 says ‘Lord himself shall descent from heaven’, then the dead in Christ shall rise and so on. Does this mean that there are “two comings of christ” ? Please Reply .

    1. Hey Eben, This is a common question, which I asked at one time myself. First there is only one parousia or presence. Jesus descends from heaven once. When he touches the ground is a separate issue. The picture here is of believers being lifted off the ground to meet Christ “in the air” much as Noah was lifted off the ground in the Ark. Interestingly the Bible records that Noah was in the Ark 1 year, ten days: the exact time from Yom Teruah of year six to Yom Kippur the following year! (As in the days of Noah so shall be the coming of the Son of Man.) Revelation 19:6-10 records the wedding of the Lamb. Notice the next event in Rev. 19 is Christ coming on his white horse with his army of resurrected saints and angels. This is when he fully descends to the Earth. During the year prior, he and the saints are off the Earth but he oversees the Wrath of God being poured out. He is present (parousia) but not on the Earth. The wedding of the Lamb occurs during the 1 year period. Deut. teaches a Jewish man could not go to war for one year after his wedding. This is further “proof” of this one year period.

      This is a very brief explanation. I HIGHLY recommend you purchase the two recommended books. One paragraph cannot explain what two entire books explain. Blessings. Nelson

  13. Oh My!!!! Facinating.!!!… Much to study and pray about. We His remnant must get ready and be prepared. Thank you once again Nelson for such valuable insight and thorough study of The Word.

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