What Does Great Tribulation Mean?

Nearly every Chirstian knows the phrase “Great Tribulation.” But most don’t have a clear understanding of what it is, how it fits in with the rest of Daniel’s 70th Week, and what exactly will happen during this time. So what does great tribulation mean?

Jesus himself coined the phrase in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus’s answer to quesitons his disciples had about the Time of the End. It had been a rough day for the disciples, Jesus had just had a knock-down verbal sparing with the Jewish Leaders in the Temple. (His famous “woe to you scribes and pharasees” speech in Matt. 23). Prior to that speech, the Disciples were still probably hoping that the religious leaders would name Jesus as Messiah and King right there and then. After the speech, they knew there was no going back; a confrontation was coming. On there way out of the Temple, they tried to break the awkward silence by commenting on size and beauty of the Temple stones. Jesus’s curt reply was that soon not one stone would remain on another.

The Question

“Great,” the Disciples probably thought, “we won’t even have a Temple!” When they got back to their camp on the Mount of Olives, they gathered the guts to ask Jesus about Daniel’s 70th Week. Their specific questions actually quoted the Book of Daniel:

As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen (referring to the destruction of the Temple), and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Matt. 24: 3 NASB)

Jesus chose not to answer the question about the timing of the destruction of the Temple. In answer to the “sign of his coming,” Jesus gave an entire series of signs that form a “roadmap” of Daniel’s 70th Week. The final question about the end (SUNTELEIA) of the age is a direct quote from the Book of Daniel. English translations miss this completely, but Matthew 24: 3 quotes this word from the Septuagint (Greek) Old Testament:

There shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame. And the wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and some of the many righteous as the stars for ever and ever. And thou, Daniel, close the words, and seal the book to the time of the end (SUNTELEIA). (Dan. 12: 1-4 LXX)

The word “end” here is a specific term in the Greek (SUNTELEIA) which means “completion of many parts.” The many parts we now know is the opening of the 7 Sealed Scroll pictured in Revelation chapters 6-8. It also carries the meaning of “consumation of a transaction.” Jesus paid our sin debt on the cross and that will allow the resurrection (“awake, some to everlasting life” Dan. 12:2) and the rapture (” the wise shall ‘shine’ as the brightness of the firmament” Dan. 12:3) both pictured here in Daniel. He will consumate the “transaction” he paid for with his blood when Jesus opens the scroll and the names of the righteous that he purchased will be revealed.

The Answer

So this is what the Disciples were asking about: this specific passage from the Book of Daniel. Jesus refers to this passage directly later in his answer:

For then there will be a great tribulation (MEGALE THLIPSIS), such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. (Matt. 24: 21 NASB)

Jesus is quoting from the first part of Daniel’s passage (Dan. 12:1) that is highlighted in the above section. He is letting the Disciples know his answer involves the same period of time Daniel was talking about, and that it will result in the same wonderful results: a resurrection and rapture. In Revelation 7: 14, John sees a multitude no one can count praising Jesus in heaven and is told they are those that came out of the “Great Tribulation.” These are the resurrected and raptured saints.

Great Tribulation

Jesus uses the phrase “great tribulation” and these words are the heart of this post. What do these words mean? THLIPSIS is the word that we translate “tribulation.” The Greek literally means “pressure that confines us in a restricted place.” The picture this word paints is of an internal pressure of being trapped with no escape. It also carries the meaning of oppression or persecution. This word appears 45 times in the New Testament, but only twice is the term “Great Tribulation” used (Matt. 24:21 and Rev. 7:14). This is a specific time of persecution.

Knowing what Jesus meant by “great” will help us understand this time period. The Greek word we translate as “great” is MEGALE which means “biggest or widest in sense.” There is a misconception that the oppression during this time will be worse than the persectution saints have endured throughout the ages. This simply isn’t true if we look at the word Jesus used for “great;” it means the most “wide spread” tribulation, not the worst.  The tribulation being experienced by our brothers and sisters being beheaded and raped in the Middle East today and the tribulation of those fed to the lions in the second century was not less severe than what will be experienced in the Great Tribulation. The difference is that at that time, most Christians world wide will experience it. The “scope” of the tribulation will be broader.

When those believers who follow the Pre-Tribulation Rapture theory say “my God would never do that to his Bride, the Church” (meaning we won’t be subject to this tribulation.); they are 100% mistaken. God has already allowed His saints throughout the ages to be subject to this type of persecution unto death. The difference is that this type of persecution was limited to smaller geographic areas in the past. The oppression that is coming will most likely be world wide.

“How Long, Oh, Lord?”

When the fifth seal is broken on the 7 Sealed Scroll, the martyrs under the altar in heaven cry out, “how long” before God ends the carnage and avenges their deaths. Some believe the Great Tribulation is the entire last half of Daniel’s 70th Week (last 3 1/2 years). This is also incorrect. Jesus has told us that he is going to shorten the Great Tribulation so it is less than the full 3 1/2 years.

For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.  Unless those days (the Great Tribulation) had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. (Matt. 24: 21-22 NASB)

So what causes the Great Tribulation to end? Certainly the Rapture will truncate the Great Tribulation, but the Great Tribulation actually ends before the Rapture.

But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  (Matt. 24: 29 NASB)

It is the Celestial Earthly Disturbance event that ends the Great Tribulation! This is not understood, even by many prophecy teachers. This also clearly shows that the final blood moon of the current blood moon tetrad that is occuring cannot end up being the Celestial Earthly Disturbance because the Great Tribulation hasn’t started let alone completed. So how does the Celestial Earthly Disturbance end the Great Tribulation? We learn this from another view of this event in Revelation:

I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;  and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.  The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.  Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the  commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. (Rev. 6: 12-15 NASB)

The forces of the Antichrist will be hiding in caves!! There will be no time to kill Christians when they are hiding! Now that we know when it ends, lets look at when it starts:

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),  then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains . . . For then there will be a great tribulation (Matt. 24: 15-16, 21 NASB)

It is abundantly clear that the Great Tribulation starts at the Midpoint of the 70th Week when the Antichrist sets up the Abomination of Desolation. The time from the Midpoint to the Celestial Earthly Disturbance event should be slightly less than 2 1/2 years, so that is an approximate length of the Great Tribulation.

Summary

We’ve seen that the Great Tribulation will be a time of wide spread persecution unto death (just like what is happening now in the Middle East except world wide.) It will last just a little bit less than 2 1/2 years and the Celestial Earthly Disturbance event will end the persecution.

 

 

46 thoughts on “What Does Great Tribulation Mean?”

  1. Yes, very interesting. Although why slightly less than 2 1/2 years…? when you read the bowl judgments, at the woes, suddenly there is no ref to the saints anywhere, so at some point after the first 3 1/2 years the saints are gone, so yeah maybe its 2 1/2 years… Would like to know how they got to that 🙂

    1. Annette, the saints are missing during the Trumpets as well. Explaining why I think the Rapture occurs 1 year prior to the physical second coming is a very long explanation. Let me just say that 3 times in Isaiah, the prophet claims the Wrath of God is one year long. Combine that with the fact that Noah was in the Ark (picture of the rapture) for 1 year and 10 days and we have a very consistent scriptural picture. There is much, much more however. But as an answer to a comment, this will have to do.

  2. Interesting article with lots of good information, but there was one point I was no clear on. You state that the Great Tribulation will be cut short and last only 2.5 years, but I am not sure where you are getting that number.

    Did I miss something? Why 2.5, as opposed to 2, or 1.5, or even 1?

    1. Great question Zach with a really long answer. I suggest you begin with the book The Last Shofar in the recommended reading list. Even more evidence will be provided in my upcoming book but that is a year away.

  3. “Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus’ return] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,” (2 Thess. 2:3, NASB).

    Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. Therefore, an apostate is someone who has once believed and then rejected the truth of God. Apostasy is a rebellion against God because it is a rebellion against truth. In the Old Testament, God warned the Jewish people about their idolatry and their lack of trust in Him. In the New Testament, the epistles warn us about not falling away from the truth. Apostasy is a very real and dangerous threat.

    The verse at the top of the page tells us that there will be an apostasy that is associated with the appearance of the Antichrist. Most Christians are looking for the arrival of the Antichrist and the 3rd temple, but very few are looking for “the apostasy” that must come first. The arrival of the Antichrist cannot occur until sufficient apostasy has happened in the world. The Antichrist, who is the ultimate of liars, cannot abide in a world where the truth of God’s Word is taught. This is why the Bible says that the apostasy will come first and then the Antichrist will be revealed.

    Therefore, we must, as Christians, ask this question, “Is there an apostasy occurring in the Christian church today?” Some would say no and others yes. But, as we look for the arrival of the Antichrist and 3rd temple should we not also be looking for the arrival of apostasy? And where else should we first look but in our own house for the Bible tells us that judgment will begin in the house of the Lord (1 Peter 4:17).

    1. Good points all AFO. My personal opinion on this is that apostasy is certainly here. I call this the Gradual Apostasy. But an Apostasy is coming when all people will be given a life or death choice to choose Jesus or the AC to worship. At that point we will see the Great Apostasy.

  4. Great work sir, may you continue to be blessed. I’m curious though,…as to what your thoughts may be concerning that which the reader is expected to know as is written “let the reader understand” of matt 23:15. Be glad to get word on this from anyone.

  5. Perhaps we are seeing the matter from a different vantage point. In Luke 17 as well as several other passages, it seems that the Lord’s return (his parousia) is sudden and the judgment is swift to take place. There seems to be no mention in Luke 17 about what happens in the “great tribulation” during the bowls of wrath judgments.

    Great discussion here.

    1. Luke 17 appears to be a separate teaching from the Olivet Discourse given in Luke 21, Matt. 24, and Mark 13. The parallels with the Sign of the Son of Man (lightning from the east to the west) and the days of Noah being like the days of the Son of Man are exact, however. This is OBVIOUSLY about the 70th Week of Daniel. The Luke 17 teaching is prompted by a question by the Jewish leaders about the coming of the Kingdom. After answering them, Jesus pulls his disciples aside and gives a more complete and satisfying answer, and thankfully so. This small teaching gives us great insight into the Second Coming.

      The Second Coming of Christ begins with the Rapture and it will be sudden. In 1 Thess. 5, we are told to the unrighteous, it (the Day of the Lord) will come like a Thief in the night. We are told that to Christians, however, it will NOT come as a thief; we will know the timing. And as Luke 17 teaches, on the same day as the rapture, God’s Wrath will fall on unbelievers. This isn’t the end however, His Wrath lasts an entire year. We know the Fifth Trumpet alone is 5 months long. In Isaiah we read, “For the Lord has a day of vengeance, A year of recompense for the cause of Zion” (Isa. 34:8).

      The fact that the Rapture occurs at the end of the Sixth Year and the Wrath is a year long is not accident. It causes the 70th Week of Daniel to mimic a traditional “week” of six days of laborious work followed by a Sabbath rest. Christians will undergo six years of tribulation followed by a year’s rest in heaven before returning with the Lord at the Second Coming.

      Look at Rev. 19. In verses 5-10 we see the marriage supper of the Lamb. Only after this do we see Christ descend to the earth with the Church on white horses behind him in verses 11 – 19 to fight Armageddon. So the marriage of the Lamb happens first, then Armageddon. We know from Deut. 24: 5 that “When a man takes a new wife, he shall not go out with the army nor be charged with any duty; he shall be free at home one year and shall give happiness to his wife whom he has taken.” Christ will obviously follow this scriptural precept and live with his new Bride in Heaven for one year before Armageddon.

      All the pieces fit perfectly when you view the Rapture as occurring at the end of the Sixth Year, just like the six days of a normal week followed by a Sabbath.

      A couple of things about the Second Coming. Just like the ascensions of Jesus’s First coming were complex, so will the comings of his Second Coming be complex. Immediately after his resurrection Jesus rose to the Father for a brief time and only then returned, appeared 40 days on earth and then ascended again. Why shouldn’t the Second Coming (parousia) be allowed to be complex as well? He descends (but does not land), raptures his Church and then a year later descends, lands, fights Armageddon and rules 1000 years. Don’t limit your thinking to the parousia being a single day.

      None of Jesus’s teaching shows any of Trumpet Judgments beyond the first Trumpet seen in Luke 17 BTW. The Olivet Discourse ends with the Rapture at the end of the sixth year. All of the seals are in the Olivet, however, in fact the first six all listed in Luke 21:8-11. This is because the Church will be on earth and endure the time of the seals but not the Trumpets. No need to go over them, they occur after the start of the parousia and the Church is in Heaven. Only the unrighteous endure the Trumpets.

      BTW, the seals are only “one view” of something I call the Pattern of Seven Events. My second (unfinished book) details this pattern which is found in numerous scriptures in Daniel, Joshua, Judges, Psalms, Mark, Matthew, Luke, and Revelation in addition to the pattern and order of the Feasts of the Lord and even in the petitions of the Lord’s Prayer. It has taken me 520 pages to explain this in the newest book.

  6. Nelson: Interesting point. However, I would point out to bring the matter of Noah and the ark so that the Lord could destroy sin while it would be consistent with Romans 6:23 is not consistent with the prophetic text of the bowls of wrath judgement in Revelation.

    In considering the text of the bowls of wrath judgement there are more than one example of sinners on the earth mentioned in the text that seem to have not yet repented yet are left on the earth.

    God’s covenant people referred to in Revelation 12:6 flee to the wilderness (on this earth).

    Keep in mind also that not all on the earth will be judged as sinners worthy of eternal separation from God as Matthew 25:31-46 implies. So to say that everything will be as it was in Noah’s day may not be exactly correct.

    It seems that the notion that all sinners are judged at the immediate moment of the second coming is part of the legacy of what might be called the Scofield model of eschatology of the end times. C I Scofield appears to have made some untested assertions regarding the end times in his reference note bible that are with us to this day in the fabric of the end times thinking of the church. I think it is perhaps time that we test his assertions with the lamp of the scriptures and see if they are valid.

    The conclusion that God judges all sinners during the tribulation for their sins seems to be one of those assertions. Looking at the word thymos (Strong’s 2372) used for wrath in the bowl of wrath judgements (as compared to the word orge 3709) that is not used with respect to the bowl of wrath judgements) may be a clue to began a partial test of the Scofield model as it exists today.

    1. Jesus himself clears us your misconceptions on this issue, Please see Luke 17:

      just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man . . . but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed. (Luke 17: 26, 29-30)

      Here Jesus says that exactly as it happened in the “days of Noah” (number of days in Ark) so it will be also will be the “days” of Jesus’s second coming. And exactly as it happened in the time of Lot that on the same day he was “protected,” fire and brimstone rained on the earth, so will the First Trumpet judgment of fire and brimstone fall on the exact day on the rapture.

      Nothing is clearer than a single verse of scripture from our Lord. My Second book (due out next year) presents all this material and helps make the confusing timetable of the 70th Week (hopefully) clear and understandable.

  7. Most certainly Kurshner’s comments are important to take note of ( I did read his reasons yet but I intend to). However, I would like to suggest that the basis for the doctrine of the second coming from the scriptures is more effectively presented by noting the presence of the word coming (noun form) or parousia with respect to the Lord’s return. In Matthew 24 Jesus lays out the prophetic sign posts that we can measure the approaching of the second coming by. There are at least 16 and possibly 17 scriptures referring to the Lord’s parousia or the second coming.

    What is not so commonly noted is that the gathering together unto the Lord is an event that is concurrent with the parousia or second coming as presented in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 or the catching up of the living saints in I Thessalonians 4:13-18.

    I think the matter of the case of the wrath of God being released on the earth as a basis for the church not being present is not so easily made when taking into account the words orge and thymos that are translated wrath and their placement in the texts of the scriptures.

    1. Joeseph, “referring to the Lord’s parousia or the second coming.” If one considers the PAROUSIA a single one day event then your quote would be correct. If it is a more complex “one year and ten day” event, then this isn’t correct. If it begins on Yom Teruah, year six of the 70th Week with Jesus coming on the clouds. He raptures his Church at that point and they are lifted off the earth for 1 year 10 days just as Noah was 1 year ten days off the earth in the Flood “just as it happened in the DAYS OF NOAH, so it will be also in the DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN.” In fact, the very detailed “log” of events in Gen. 7 and 8 during the first wrath of God (the Flood) is likely the same timetable of events in the second wrath to come during the 7th year of the 70th Week of Daniel. These dates fit together like a puzzle, but they require a Pre-Wrath Rapture theology to be able to “see.”

  8. Nelson: Interesting point. I will certainly examine this matter further. However, I would suggest that there are two options to consider as the 7th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th bowl are released, if they are released as first the seals, trumpets and bowls then the Lord allows what appears to be exactly the same thing to happen three times or the seals, trumpets and bowls although beginning at slightly different times in the end time sequence of events end concurrently.

    Have you compared the descriptions in the three scriptures? The wording is not exact but the setting (at the temple in heaven) and the events seem to be very close to the same. Its difficult for me to ignore the similarities in the wording of the scriptures.

    There may be some sources who try to rationalize or explain the matter, but it seems a bit difficult to put the three sets of judgments in sequence after examining the wording of the text of scripture.

    1. My suggestion again, is to read Kurshner’s two dozen reasons why that is not correct. Also please note that the seals are not judgments. That begins with the first trumpet which begins the wrath of God in the 7th year of teh 70th Week. So IMO the pattern is

      7 seals (a thunder/lighning), 7 trumpets (a thunder/lightning), then 7 bowls (a thunder/lighning) then return of Christ

  9. Nelson: I won’t ask you to prove the matter here.
    I think that we ( of the evangelical church at large) spend a fare amount of time reasoning with the matter of the status of the saints who are here on the earth and when they are caught up without perhaps considering the evidence that may already exist right in front of us in the scriptures. Consider this:

    Now, brethren, concerning the coming (parousia Strong’s 3952) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though the day of Christ had come. II Thes. 2:1-2 NKJV

    The above scripture appears to link the gathering together of the saints, the coming of the Lord, or parousia and the day of Christ or day of the Lord to the same point in time. I Thessalonians 4:13-18 links the coming of the Lord or parousia and the catching away of the living saints to the same point in time. Matthew 24 reveals that the parousia occurs after the tribulation.

    Are we thinking along the same lines?

    Here are several other interesting scriptures that seem to be linked together:

    7th seal—–Then the angel took the censer, fitted it with fire from the alter, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightenings, and an earthquake. Revelation 7:5 NKJV

    7th trumpet—-Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightenings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake and great hail.
    Revelation 11:19NKJV

    7th bowl—Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying,
    “It is done!” And there were noises and thunderings and lightenings; and there was a great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. Revelation 16:17-18 NKJV

    I would point out a similar pattern in all three scriptures of noises, lightenings, thunderings and an earthquake. I can’t escape the sense here that the 7th seal, the 7th trumpet, and the 7th bowl judgements occur concurrently and after that the parousia of the Lord Jesus.

    1. As far as the passages regarding the return of Christ and the Rapture, yes, I agree completely. As far as a concurrent rather than progressive unfolding of seals, trumpets, and bowls, IMO it is progressive. First seals, then trumpets then bowls. You notice the thundering and lightning. God uses these at ALL the transition points, but they get progressively greater as you may have noticed.

      Here is a great article by Alan Kurschner (2 part article, be sure to read part two as well) that gives two dozen arguments why the seals come first, then the trumpets then the bowls. It is tempting to look at all the sevens and think they occur together and many throughout history have thought so.

  10. Nelson Great scripture references: I think that the the notion that the Lord might use what is commonly presented as acts of judgement for sin and not as part of the process to bring to maturity or to bring men to a closer relationship with the Lord is not ofter presented. Some Bible prophecy teachers seem to point to the Great Tribulation and the letter to the Laodicean church in very negative tones and suggest that the Great Tribulation is for Israel to be judged and the church has become corrupted so to speak with a Laodicean type attitude and so we in the church must consider being a part of such circumstances.

    With respect to bringing men to repentance and maturity in their faith with the Lord whether its the “laodicean church” or national Israel or even mankind in general it seems that the Lord allows some difficulty or calamity to come to cause at leas some to turn their hearts back to and sometimes to the Lord for the first time and in some cases to bring to maturity.

    My thinking on the end times has been somewhat transformed after taking a closer look at the letter to the church of Laodicea, the use of orge and thymos for wrath and also the book of Hebrews and some of the scriptures you have quoted, some of which I had considered previously.

    Here is a scripture that has become a guide post to shape my thinking with respect to various matters of the “Great Tribulation” and the times ahead including the bowls of wrath judgements:

    The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance, II Peter 3:9

    1. Joseph, you are being led by the Spirit in what I think is the right direction. IMO the Letters to the Seven Churches are prophetic (not historic) and align with each of the seven seals. Can I prove it? Yes, but it has taken me 550 pages of a new second book! Please don’t ask me to do it in a comment section. Laodicea is the 7th Church and aligns with the time after 7th Seal. Since I believe the Rapture occurs at the seventh seal this means that this is the “church” left behind by the Rapture. These are the unwise virgins in the final year of Daniel’s 70th week, that is why you see references to wrath. That is why Jesus says he wishes they were Hot (they’d already be raptured) or Cold (they would be deserving of His wrath) rather than lukewarm.

  11. Permit me to share a few thoughts here regarding the matter of punishment in connection with sin of nations and groups vs dealing with individuals and God’s possible intended purpose in HIs plans and purposes.

    With respect to the nation of Israel we may find wording such as punishment or even judgement and consider what God might be intending. I would like to suggest that His intentions appear to be to bring national Israel to a place of restoration to once again represent Him to mankind as a nation.

    The genuine punishment for sin appears to have one response from the Lord with scriptures such as Romans 6:23.

    Chastisement which is sometimes referred to as punishment, appears to have a different purpose. In the letter to the church of Laodicea, the Lord makes some very strong comments which are usually interpreted as an act of final judgment to the sin of the Laodiceans who are usually portrayed as the worst of the group of the seven churches, even worse than the church of Sardis whom the Lord says are dead (Rev 3:1) or the Ephesian church who the Lord promises to remove their candle stick (status as being a church (Rev 2:4) unless they change.

    It seems though that the Lord’s comments to the Laodicean church have a purpose which is to chastise them “As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.” Rev 3:19.

    The word paideuo (Strong’s 3811) translated as chasten appears to convey the meaning of to be instructed or taught or learn or to cause one to learn, or to castigate with words, to correct. With respect to God there is the meaning of to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities.
    With respect to a father it can be to chasten with blows.

    Although I am not aware that the word paideuo is used with respect to the nation of Israel it seems that a look at the scriptural evidence suggests that acts of divine chastening have been taking place with respect to Israel which are part of God’s shaping and moulding a nation to return to Him. It seems that even in the church this has happened and will continue to happen as is necessary to accomplish the plans and purposes of God.

    1. An almost identical word is 3809 PAIDEIA, to discipline found in Prov.1:7 and 2 Tim. 3:16, and especially Hebrews 12: 5-11 where this word appears multiple times, it also quotes Proverbs 3:12 Septuagint that shows how this Greek word was thought about in OT times:

      “you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

      “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
      Nor faint when you are reproved by Him;
      For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines,
      And He scourges every son whom He receives.”

      It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.”

  12. Nelson, you quoted this passage from Leviticus to prove it isn’t punishment…

    “Fifth Discipline (vv 27 -33) Yet if in spite of this you do not obey Me, but act with hostility against Me, then I will act with wrathful hostility against you, and I, even I, will “”punish you”” seven times for your sins.”

    ARE YOU SERIOUS?

    Can you explain to me how being punished 7 times for their sins equates to 70 years exile in Babylon? The 70 years are clearly one for every Sabbath year they failed to let the land rest. That equated to a total of 490 years, because the Sabbath was the last year of each Shabua. There is no multiplication by seven there. It’s a division by 7 that is used. 490 / 7 = 70.

    You said “This is the 70 years of Babylonian exile at the end of all these “seven times the punishments”.
    Do you mean the Leviticus 4 repetitions of 7?
    How do arrive at those equalling 70 years?

    Then at the end of those 70 years of exile, Daniel is told the Leviticus multiplication of punishment is to be imposed. In other words: You have served seventy years. But not repented. Therefore I will multiply your punishment by seven. So you will now serve 490 years.

    Your statement using Math 18:20-21 would mean God is contradicting himself, if it’s use was appropriate to this issue. It isn’t! Even you agree that forgiveness requires repentance.

    1. Phil, this will be our last discussion on this topic, you are obviously struggling with the concepts here.

      First, you ignore the one exact reference scripture gives of 70 x 7 and manufacture a reference that isn’t there.

      So one final time, Leveticus 26:34 shows the exile, when the land lays fallow 70 years, is applied AFTER, after, after, after the four “seven times” punishments. You can’t just take this figure (70 years) and mutiply it by something that was already done and finished. (and if you did wouldn’t it be 70 x 7 x 7 x 7 x7?) Lev. 26 is all about Israel’s Mosaic covenant and the disciplines applied to try and “right” the course. This CONCLUDED with the exile (Lev. 26: 34).

      The story picks up in Daniel 9 which begins with Daniel praying a prayer of repentance for the nation. He cries out for the Lord to forgive AND THEN Gabriel gives the vision of the 70 sevens. This is God’s answer. the 490 years are a message of hope and restoration. Eventually all of Israel will be saved in one day. How could a message that God is sending his Messiah to die for the sins of the world be misconstrued as punishment? Now granted there will be a hard road ahead when the Antichrist invades (v. 26) and desecrates the Temple (v. 27) but God is showing Israel He has it all under control. It is all part of his soverign will.

  13. Hi Joseph. Nelson and I have debated the meaning of being purified, made white, and refined; in an earlier post. I don’t think we are going to agree on that one either.

    But I think there is still ground to explore in this present debate…

    Nelson, you said “So the “justice” of God is 4 fold”. Good! So we can agree on why God repeated His sentence on Israel 4 times in Leviticus 26:14-35. And if I have understood you correctly. You agree that the sentence passed by God there is 490 years.

    Now consider the passage again, and tell me #1. Why you insist this isn’t punishment. And #2 Why you insist that Leviticus 490 years has no connection to Daniel’s 490 years.

    1. Phil, The seventy times seven year period in Daniel 9:24-27 is a time of MERCY not punishment. Jesus makes this clear in Matthew 18: 20-21 “Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.” Jesus did not pick this number as a random figure, he is clearly saying forgiveness extends until the end of the seventy sevens. God is merciful and his loving kindness endures forever. Don’t be so focused on the Punishment aspect.

      In Leviticus, Moses never multiplies 70 times 7. “Seventy” never appears in the passage. You are injecting that number based on the exile to Babylon. But let’s look at what Leviticus 26 truly says:

      First Discipline (vv 14 -17): But if you do not obey Me and do not carry out all these commandments, . . . I will appoint over you a sudden terror, consumption and fever that will waste away the eyes . . . you will sow your seed uselessly, . . . you will be struck down before your enemies; and those who hate you will rule over you (as in the Judges times).

      Second Discipline (vv 18-20): If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. I will also break down your pride of power; . . . your land will not yield its produce

      Third Discipline (vv 21-22) If then, you act with hostility against Me and are unwilling to obey Me, I will increase the plague on you seven times according to your sins. I will let loose among you the beasts of the field

      Fourth Discipline (vv 23-25) And if by these things you are not turned to Me . . . I will strike you seven times for your sins. I will also bring upon you a sword which will execute vengeance for the covenant; and when you gather together into your cities, I will send pestilence among you, so that you shall be delivered into enemy hands

      Fifth Discipline (vv 27 -33) Yet if in spite of this you do not obey Me, but act with hostility against Me, then I will act with wrathful hostility against you, and I, even I, will punish you seven times for your sins. Further, you will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters you will eat. (this is the siege of Jerusalem by the Babylonians) I then will destroy your high places, and cut down your incense altars, and heap your remains on the remains of your idols, for My soul shall abhor you. I will lay waste your cities as well and will make your sanctuaries desolate, and I will not smell your soothing aromas. I will make the land desolate so that your enemies who settle in it will be appalled over it. You, however, I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste.

      This fifth Discipline is the Babylonian conquest. To prove it the very next line states:

      (v 34) THEN the land will enjoy its sabbaths all the days of the desolation, while you are in your enemies’ land

      This is the 70 years of the Babylonian exile at the end of all these “seven times the punishments.” It happens AFTER they have already occurred so there is no Leviticus 490 years. No where does God prescribe a 7 x 70 judgment here. God very clearly does prescribe MERCY and FORGIVENESS for seventy times seven however in Matthew 18. It is the opposite of what you have been trying to force IMO.

  14. Nelson and Phli: Great discussion here, and as this matter is not often confronted it needs to be regarding the plans and purposes of God at the end of the age. I think the quote from Daniel 9:24 kind of speaks for itself. However, there are possibly several other items to add to what God appears to be intending with the time up to the end of the age end the great tribulation.

    Here is another scripture:
    And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked all understand, but the wise shall understand. Daniel 12:9-10 NKJV

    It seems that the above scripture speaks of a time of purification which seems to take place during the great tribulation. Nothing more was implied than the previous statement as it seems that there will be a time of purification presumably as persecutions and trials are unfolding during the Great Tribulation.

    Another possible part of the implied plan of God at the end of the age is implied in Matthew 13:24-30. This of course is a parable dealing with the separation of the wheat and the tares. Some of us may differ on when the harvest takes place, but it would seem that this would be at the end of the Great Tribulation where the angels of the Lord gather the tares to be burned and the wheat for the barn of the Lord.

  15. Thanks Nelson, I see how trying to hold onto a one year Tribulation causes you to contradict yourself.

    42 months or 3 1/2 years ““For these are the days of vengeance, that ALL things which are written may be fulfilled.”

    How do you interpret a clear and unambiguous statement like that to mean a one year Tribulation? And whose vengeance do you think that is? Who do you think it is directed at? And for what reason?

    There are clear pauses indicated in Daniel’s 9:24 prophecy. I give an explanation here:
    https://danielsealbroken.wordpress.com/seventy-weeks/

    1. BTW, contrats Phil, you and I agree on something. I agree that there is a pause between the 7 Shabua and the 62 Shabua and the 1!! I don’t agree with all your estimates, but I do agree with teh pauses.

      I believe in a 7 year 70th Week of Daniel not a one. I believe in a one year Wrath of God/Day of the Lord. Perhaps that is what you meant.

      In answer to your question, the word vengence in Luke 21: 22 is ECKDIKESIS which primarily means avenging, judging or justice. It is the same word used in Luke 18: 7 “now, will not God bring about justice (ECKDIKESIS) for His elect who cry to Him day and night.” Obviously this has the opposite meaning of what I assume you were thinking.

      So the “justice” of God is 4 fold: reward for the righteous, punishment for the wicked, return of the dominion of the earth to the rightful owners, and salvation for the remnant of Israel. These things are accomplished during this time by the opening of the 7 sealed scroll. See how all the pieces fit?

  16. Nelson, you said:
    “IF you were correct, the days of Nehemiah rebuilding the wall would be punishment. In fact your theory implies that all the days between Nehemiah and Christ’s death on the cross were part of this punishment. This simply is not correct.”

    That would be incorrect, if I had implied the punishment period ended with the cross. I didn’t!

    I am saying the period began when Daniel was taken into Babylonian captivity, and ends when Jesus takes his throne on this planet. It is the period known as The Time Of The Gentiles. A period during which Jews are without absolute sovereignty over the Promised Land and Jerusalem. A period when they remain scattered amongst the nations, and consequently, under those nations rule. All in accordance with God’s judgement against them, and the punishment He sentenced them to.

    The fact that God began the punishment with only 70 years exile for the Sabbaths, is testament to His graciousness. He began by punishing them with the least sentence, for the least of their sins. But read Ezekiel and you will see they never repented their worst sins. Not even to this day. Hence the final seven weeks of years, the Tribulation.

    1. Thanks Phil, I find it interesting how trying to hold onto a theory like the Pre-Trib Rapture creates all sorts of minunderstandings. Let’s continue to look at the 70 Shabua (490 years).

      * The passage ITSELF tells us the purpose of these years: “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.” (Dan. 9: 24) Notice punishment is not included in the purposes given Daniel by the angel.

      * The passage says 70 shabua, not that the time continues on until the return of Christ. There is a gap of 2000 years. Please also notice that the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 is NOT included in the shabua, it occurs outside the 490 year period during this gap. This is one strong reason that I believe the passage about the destruction (Gk: DIAPHTHEIRO, meaning to corupt) of the temple might actually be yet future, during the 70th week. If that destruction of the temple in AD 70 was in view, it would be part of the 70 shabua.

      * The TIMES (Gk.: KAIRON, meaning appointed times) OF THE GENTILES is specifically noted in scripture as being the 42 months Jerusalem is occupied during the 70th Week; NOT the entire time since Babylon to the present.

      “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread (Gk: PATEO, meaning to trample) the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. (Rev. 11: 1-2)

      “For these are the days of vengeance, that ALL things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled (Gk: PATEO meaning to trample) by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21: 22-24)

      You can see in Revelation that Jerusalem is trampled (PATEO) for 42 and in Luke this period (When ALL THINGS which are written are fulfilled) is referred to as the TIMES OF THE GENTILES. The Bible interprets itself. Saying the Times of the Gentiles is a longer period is a common misconception, but he scriptures teach otherwise.

  17. Hi Nelson.

    I will deal only with the issue of whether or not the 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy is punishment. This is what I call a benchmark scripture. That is to say, it’s one by which we must interpret all others.

    Jeremiah 25:1-14
    “The message was given to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah, during the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah (which was also the first year of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon) 2 Jeremiah the prophet said to the people of Judah, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 3 From the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, to this day, it is the twenty-third year in which the word of the Lord has come to me. And I have given that message to you. Speaking from early in the day, but you have not listened.
    4 And the Lord has sent you all his servants the prophets, sending them early in the day, but you have not listened nor been willing to hear. 5 They said, repent now, everyone of your evil ways and evil doings, and live in the land that the Lord gave to you and your fathers forever and ever. 6 Don’t go after other gods, serving and worshiping them, and don’t provoke me to anger by the works of your hands, and I will not harm you. 7 The Lord says: But you have not listened to me, provoking me to anger by the works of your hands, to your own hurt.
    8 Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts: Because you have not listened to my words, 9 look, I will send for all the families of the north, says the Lord, “and also for Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant. And I will bring them against this land, and against its inhabitants, and against these surrounding nations, and I will utterly destroy them, making them a thing of horror and scorn, and perpetual desolations. 10 I will take from them the sound of laughter and happiness, the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the lamp. 11 And this whole land shall be desolate and a horror, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
    12 Then when seventy years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon and the nation and land of the Chaldeans for their iniquity, says the Lord. And I will make it a perpetual desolation. 13 So I will bring on that land all my words that I have spoken against it, all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah has prophesied concerning all the nations. 14 For many nations and great kings shall enslave them. And I will repay them according to their deeds and according to the works of their own hands.”

    The reason God had them taken into Babylonian captivity was their worship of false gods, and their failure to allow their farmland to lie fallow every seventh year (The Sabbath year) as God had commanded. They had failed to do this for 490 years, so God sent them into captivity for 70 years; so the land would have the rest years it was due. 2 Chronicles 36:17-21

    They didn’t repent of their sin, so the angel gave Daniel the prophecy of 70 weeks of years judgement against them.

    Do you see the connection? First 70 years in Babylon. One for each Sabbath year they failed to keep. Then a multiplication of that judgement by 7.

    Now what was the Babylonian exile if it wasn’t God’s punishment? And if that was punishment, so too is the 490 years, including the final 7.

    The fact that the seven times over judgement is repeated four times, doesn’t in any way contradict the fact that this is all punishment for sins committed. Sins that, in the case of the Church, are paid for by Christ. The repetition may be nothing more than God’s hallmark of 4 that we see often in scripture.

    1. Phil, I believe this interpretation does not hit the mark. IF you were correct, the days of Nehemiah rebuilding the wall would be punishment. In fact your theory implies that all the days between Nehemiah and Christ’s death on the cross were part of this punishment. This simply is not correct.

      Now there is an aspect about Daniel’s 70th Week that does include discipline, like the discipline of a loving Father, toward the Jews and the Church (the complete family of God – Jew and Gentile). God desires to bring the Jews to faith and to perfect his Bride. This is far from the only purpose of the 70th Week but it is one.

      “For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? Now if the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear? Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator” (1 Pet. 4: 17-19)
      (1 Pet. 4:17)

      Do you not think that God has the right and the foreknowledge to know what is good for us, even if it involves suffering? That he can be faithful even in our suffering?

      Notice this passage then discusses the ungodly. This is where punishment comes to bear. God WILL pour out his wrathful punishment on the ungodly, but only after the saints are raptured and the Jewish remnant are sealed and protected from it. This doesn’t occur however until the seventh seal is broken, the scroll opens, and the names of the righteous are revealed in the Book of Life (Dan. 12:1-2). At that point they are raptured and only then does the true punishment begin. Prior to that the first six years of the 70th Week is discipline carried out by the riders of the four horses. Permitted by God but not caused by God, much as God permitted Satan to test Job.

  18. I would like to share a few thoughts on the purpose for the 70th week which might not satisfy anyone but is implied from the scriptures:

    Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city to finish the the transgression, to make and end of sins, to make a reconciliation for iniquity, to bring everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy. Daniel 9:24 NKJV

    After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”
    Revelation 7:9-10 NKJV

    It seems that the Lord has a multifaceted plan put into place regarding the final season before Jesus returns as implied by the above scriptures. It seems to include restoring Israel as a nation to more visibly represent the plans and purposes of God to the nations and to allow the gospel message to reach every group that the Lord had intended in the “Great Commission” that He gave to the church in Matthew 28:18-20 in addition to some other purposes implied by other texts on mentioned here.

    It seems that in the plans and purposes of God that He also intends for the church to be here on this earth until the parousia (Thessalonians 4:13-18) which according to Matthew 24:29-31 doesn’t occur until after the great tribulation.

    It is very tempting to take our eyes off the scripture text regarding the parousia and reimagine the plans and purposes of God differently than the what the scriptures clearly reveal. It seems that the God of heaven and earth has multifaceted goals for the season of time from now and until Jesus returns in the clouds.

  19. Hi Nelson, you demonstrate some excellent understanding of the meaning of the Tribulation. However, you fail to understand its purpose.

    As I stated in my comment on one of your earlier posts. The 70th week (Tribulation) is the fulfilment of the 70 weeks of years judgement by God against Israel. It is not, and cannot be a judgement against the Church, because Christ took our judgement upon himself.

    Leviticus 26:14-35
    “`But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, then I will do this to you: … “`If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. …”`If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve…”`If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over… “`If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. …Then the land will enjoy its sabbath years all the time that it lies desolate and you are in the country of your enemies; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. All the time that it lies desolate, the land will have the rest it did not have during the sabbaths you lived in it.”

    The reference to Sabbath years connects the reason for the Babylonian seventy year exile. A year for every Sabbath year Israel failed to let the land rest. So we see God spelling out the 490 years of judgement against Israel, and his reasons for it.

    Now ask yourself this question. If the Jews had accepted Jesus Christ when he came to them nearly 2000 years ago. Would the Tribulation still be scheduled to take place? The answer to that should be an obvious no! And if you agree with that answer, why do you think Christians, who have accepted Christ, should suffer under the same judgement as that which God is sending on the Jews, and the rest of this God hating world?

    1. Thanks for the comments Phil. A couple quick explanations:
      * the 70th Week of Daniel is not punishment, only the last year of it, the Wrath of God, is punishment. It is critical to understand this difference. Christians will be raptured at the seventh seal prior to the punishment beginning. Remember it is the Great (widespread) Tribulation not the Great Wrath. Jesus is precise about his words.
      * during the first six years, the persecution of the saints will provide an “opportunity for testimony” (Luke 21:13). This is the primary reason the Church is on the earth in those days so the “blood of the martyrs becomes the seed of the church.”

      Now in regard to Lev. 26, there are actually 4 sets of 490 years NOT one. Read again carefully. Some take this 1960 years to mean the time between 70 AD and the return of the Lord. I am not of that mindset, but some interpret it that way.

      Second you ask “what if the Jews accepted Christ at his first coming, would there still be a Tribulation?” Strangely there would be, because some of the purposes of the 70th Week of Daniel would still need to be fulfilled. Satan is the ruler (Gk: ARCHON) of this world. He was given dominion of the world after the fall of Adam and Eve. The 7 sealed scroll (Rev. 5-11) would still need to be opened for the dominion of this world to pass from Satan to its rightful owners Christ and the Saints (Dan. 7:27). Christ is our “kinsman redeemer” and his blood is the price paid for our sin debt AND the dominion of the world. This price would need to be paid another way, I suppose. Of course, this is nonsense because in God’s foreknowledge things were to happen just as they did.

      The opening of that scroll is the central event of Daniel’s 70th Week and understanding what the scroll is and what is happening there is critical.

    2. God’s wrath always has as its target the ungodly, never the righteous. The Great Tribulation is not the wrath of God, nor is it His judgment. The Great Tribulation is the wrath of Satan, which is triggered by his eviction from heaven (Daniel 12 and Revelation 12) in the middle of the week.

      Christians have been persecuted and martyred for following Christ since He rose from the dead. That was not God’s judgment or wrath. Even now Christians are being persecuted and brutally murdered in the Middle East; they are suffering great tribulation, probably on a scale this world has never seen. More Christians have been martyred in the 20th Century up until our present time than any time in history. But this is not God’s wrath. Persecution and martyrdom of the saints is the pattern throughout history.

  20. “There is a misconception that the oppression during this time will be worse than the persectution saints have endured throughout the ages. This simply isn’t true if we look at the word Jesus used for “great;” it means the most “wide spread” tribulation, not the worst. The tribulation being experienced by our brothers and sisters being beheaded and raped in the Middle East today and the tribulation of those fed to the lions in the second century was not less severe than what will be experienced in the Great Tribulation. The difference is that at that time, most Christians world wide will experience it. The “scope” of the tribulation will be broader.”

    Nelson, thank you for clarifying the meaning of the Greek words in these texts. This makes sense. Art Katz called those who hold to a pre-Tribulation view “rapture escapists”. I think it is an accurate description.

    Regarding Daniel 12 and Revelation 12, if you grasp what is being said in these passages, in context with Jesus’ own words in Matthew 24, this will give you a good framework for protection against deception, which even now is enveloping much of the church. We may not know or understand or have insight into every detail of the timing of events, but if you take Jesus (and Paul as well) at His word, there should be no mistaking what happens in the middle of the week. Personally, I think we should be able to recognize when things begin to happen at the beginning of the seven years, when the sacrifices begin, but Jesus and Paul specifically pointed to the abomination of desolation, when AC enters the temple in Jerusalem.

    And then to cap it off, in Matt. 24:25, Jesus adds this: “Behold, I have told you everything in advance.” We have been forewarned so that we will not be deceived. Jesus has told us everything we need to know in order to recognize the coming days. How kind of Him to do this!! Do we understand this? He has not left us helpless and in the dark for when these things begin to go down. I pray we would take great comfort in this.

    1. Donald, on August 28th my book comes out. It is designed to give to pastors; to encourage them to “wake up” to the reality of what is occurring on the earth. If you give you pastor one AND he becomes interested, your home church might become a host site for a conference. Where are you located?

  21. Nelson:

    Perhaps, and I want to classify what I would like to share very carefully, the disturbances with the sun and the moon are of such a nature that without God’s direct intervention none would survive (in addition to the persecution and the other judgements unfolding). Perhaps what is being presented to us in several parts of scripture is a description of the aging process of the sun which will occur eventually but perhaps at a time of the Lord’s choosing at the end of the age.

    Here is a link to a website on the issue of stellar evolution which describes the natural aging process a star (including a star like our sun) might go through which could end with the sun turning into a planetary nebulae with a white dwarf (what is potentially left of the sun).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_evolution

    One step in the process of an aging star such as our sun could be the red giant phase (which would cause the moon to appear red) and then a point where the inner core of helium ignites resulting in a very short lived helium flash, which could explain a passage such as in Isaiah 30:26 which describes the sun as being seven fold brighter.

    I use tentative terms in presenting these things as matters do not have to unfold as described above, but it seems to be possibly moving that way.

    This might also explain why at the sixth seal men are diving for cover in anticipation of the release of solar radiation.

    1. Thanks for sharing. There are many theories. We need to both consider them all and also be sure they account for all the aspects of the Celestial Earthly Disturbance we find in scripture. In Luke we see what appear to be Tsunami’s. In Joel we see columns of smoke (Volcanos?), and in Isaiah 13:13 we see the earth will be “shaken out of its place” (the orbit of the earth will be changed.) Not sure this theory accounts for these aspects of the CED.

  22. There seems to be a parallel here between the Groom and the Bride.

    Jesus the Groom was delivered in the hands of His persecutors by God the Father himself, to be perfected through ultimate obedience and perseverance in remaining loving, even in suffering and martyrdom.

    So will his followers, the Bride, be delivered into the hands of the Beast and his followers by God the Father himself. Also to be perfected through ultimate obedience and perseverance in remaining loving, also in suffering and death.

    Only then Groom and Bride will become a perfect match.

    So I presume.
    Let not our love grow cold, not even in the face of difficult times ahead, not though we are faced with hatred and persecution.

    1. Wonderful insight Adamant.

      The example given in the Church of Smyrna in Revelation 2:10-11, is exactly what the Bride will go through in the last 2-3 years remaining, before the Day of The Lord.

      The Bride’s suffering will only Glorify God and will confirm to God himself and also to the whole creation that Jesus and the suffering Bride are the perfect match made for the millenium kingdom and also the new earth and heaven, that our father will create for his Son.

  23. I’m glad this is in print. Some people argue “God will never do that to his Bride, the Church” but when things do play out in the Last Days as your article said they would, they will able to look back read this article and then understand. Thank you.

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